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Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

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Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#121

Post by autoexec »

prvit wrote: post #53
alexb_ wrote: post #8

The normalization of Denuvo, as well as "anti-cheat" protection that involves constant monitoring of your environment, is a fucking travesty for privacy and games. The worst part about Denuvo is that cracking it is game-specific, and there's ~1 person who is willing and able to do it (and currently isn't touching denuvo due to not being donated enough money)

Stuff like Denuvo was normal back when games where sold on floppies… What is this “normalization” you’re talking about?

There was nothing close to Denuvo when games were sold on floppies. I'd happily go back to a time when we had to worry about code wheels or finding the first word on a certain page of the manual instead of having your entire system infected with malware giving access to your personal data/files and having your machine's performance crippled.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#122

Post by prvit »

thot_experiment wrote: post #120
Shorel wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an iRacing customer, I am glad the anti-cheat they use, exists. Otherwise, I would be subjected to shitty racers who would ruin every race in the first lap, and cheaters who compete on hacks instead of talent. I am also sure there are equivalent bad apples in every single gaming platform.

Anti-cheat and DRM are not the same thing, and having community servers with admins greatly reduces the need for anti-cheat. So does not having rewards for winning other than winning.

Some crazy rose tinted glasses here. Back in the CS 1.6 and CS:S days community admins would only catch straight up rage hacks, most aimbots and triggerbots would fly under the radar unless caught by clientside anti-cheat.

But sure, we can pretend that cheaters don’t matter as long as it’s not blatantly obvious to all other players.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#123

Post by autoexec »

prvit wrote: post #56
alexb_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the best part for execs who think piracy cuts into legitimate game sales (it doesn't). And for those who want every single copy to come with a giant amount of bloat and spyware so that a fraction of a % of people who weren't going to give them money anyways don't get to play.

> It's the best part for execs who think piracy cuts into legitimate game sales (it doesn't). I’ve bought games because there were no cracks available, I don’t think I’ve ever bought a game after pirating it. There’s no way I’m alone in this.

> I’ve bought games because there were no cracks available, I don’t think I’ve ever bought a game after pirating it.

Plenty of others have pirated games and then paid for them. I often pirate games after paying for them. Piracy enables people to try games in genres they aren't willing to take a chance on at full price, it serves as a form of advertising giving people a chance to get into a game or franchise they might never have come across otherwise, and plenty of people (myself included) have refused to buy or play games until a crack is available.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#124

Post by prvit »

autoexec wrote: post #121
prvit wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like Denuvo was normal back when games where sold on floppies… What is this “normalization” you’re talking about?

There was nothing close to Denuvo when games were sold on floppies. I'd happily go back to a time when we had to worry about code wheels or finding the first word on a certain page of the manual instead of having your entire system infected with malware giving access to your personal data/files and having your machine's performance crippled.

That’s not what Denuvo does.

The only meaningful difference between Denuvo and floppy-DRM is that Denuvo employs a bit more sophisticated obfuscation scheme.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#125

Post by prvit »

autoexec wrote: post #123
prvit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the best part for execs who think piracy cuts into legitimate game sales (it doesn't). I’ve bought games because there were no cracks available, I don’t think I’ve ever bought a game after pirating it. There’s no way I’m alone in this.

> I’ve bought games because there were no cracks available, I don’t think I’ve ever bought a game after pirating it. Plenty of others have pirated games and then paid for them. I often pirate games after paying for them. Piracy enables people to try games in genres they aren't willing to take a chance on at full price, it serves as a form of advertising giving people a chance to get into a game or franchise they migh…

>Plenty of others have pirated games and then paid for them.

I doubt a meaningful amount of people did this, but I’d love to see evidence to the contrary.

>and plenty of people (myself included) have refused to buy or play games until a crack is available.

Well, yeah, but it’s HN and we have all kinds of crazy people here who aren’t very representative of the overall market.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#126

Post by LoganDark »

Shorel wrote: post #119
badocr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that Denuvo is not an anti-cheat, it's DRM.

Reminder not needed. Many of these solutions, both DRM and anti-cheat, work using the principle of checking if the user is using the original unmodified files, and checking if the user is not also modifying the memory of the running program with some tool.

DRM has the additional goal of restricting who can use even those unmodified, genuine files, whereas anticheat does not.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#127

Post by goosedragons »

sarsway wrote: post #65
tristor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation who also owns two Switches, I can tell you that most of the emulation scene on the Deck is very much /not/ Switch games. It's mostly people emulating games from the NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, PSX, and similar older systems. Most of these games would do well if they had proper re-releases with updated graphics quality, but the rel…

> As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in weste…

Do you think the Steam Deck ships with a Switch emulator installed? It doesn't, nor does Steam even have one for download. You can load one on because it's literally just a handheld computer but you can also load on pirated PC games...

It's not the primary purpose of the device. I've yet to even bother loading up an emulator and have just been playing PC games.

It's basically as ludicrous as suggesting Microsoft is also supporting Switch piracy because Yuzu also runs on Windows.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#128

Post by stonith »

prvit wrote: post #122
thot_experiment wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-cheat and DRM are not the same thing, and having community servers with admins greatly reduces the need for anti-cheat. So does not having rewards for winning other than winning.

Some crazy rose tinted glasses here. Back in the CS 1.6 and CS:S days community admins would only catch straight up rage hacks, most aimbots and triggerbots would fly under the radar unless caught by clientside anti-cheat. But sure, we can pretend that cheaters don’t matter as long as it’s not blatantly obvious to all other players.

We used vote kick to get rid of them. The server would clear quickly if the vote failed so it wasn't a huge issue.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#129

Post by goosedragons »

tristor wrote: post #69
sarsway wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in weste…

> I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies. Intellectual Property law in the US is a complete mess and any rational analysis would acknowledge that. That said, I don't play Switch games on my Steam Deck, I don't even have any Switch roms. I own a Switch, why would I play those games on a Steam Deck when I can just play them on t…

It's a Square Enix game so Nintendo has no control on whether or not to re-release it. There is an admittedly rough PC port of Chrono Trigger on Steam playable on Steam Deck.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#130

Post by tristor »

goosedragons wrote: post #129
tristor wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies. Intellectual Property law in the US is a complete mess and any rational analysis would acknowledge that. That said, I don't play Switch games on my Steam Deck, I don't even have any Switch roms. I own a Switch, why would I play those games on a Steam Deck when I can just play them on t…

It's a Square Enix game so Nintendo has no control on whether or not to re-release it. There is an admittedly rough PC port of Chrono Trigger on Steam playable on Steam Deck.

The PC port doesn't have proper controls on Steam Deck, I already own it on Steam.

That said, Chrono Trigger originally released in 1995, when Nintendo entered into pretty serious agreements with publishers. No, they cannot unilaterally republish it, but they have significant power here and have worked with Square on re-releasing other games. Chrono Trigger is one that they've never republished (possibly due to agreements with Sony since it was republished on PSX).

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