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Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

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Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#61

Post by tristor »

prvit wrote: post #56
alexb_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the best part for execs who think piracy cuts into legitimate game sales (it doesn't). And for those who want every single copy to come with a giant amount of bloat and spyware so that a fraction of a % of people who weren't going to give them money anyways don't get to play.

> It's the best part for execs who think piracy cuts into legitimate game sales (it doesn't). I’ve bought games because there were no cracks available, I don’t think I’ve ever bought a game after pirating it. There’s no way I’m alone in this.

Meanwhile, back when I had time to game heavily I would, as a matter of course, pirate every single game on PC because the experience was pretty much always superior, but I would also pre-order/buy on release the same games. I didn't pirate because I didn't want to pay for it, I pirated because I didn't want to deal with a single-player games requiring an always-on Internet connection and running kernel modules in Windows to do piracy/cheat detection, degrading system/game performance, and violating my privacy and the security of my system.

I own literally thousands of games on Steam, and thousands more outside of Steam. I also relentlessly pirated every game I wanted to play for decades. The way to "fix" piracy is by companies providing a superior user experience, not by beating their paying customers with sticks.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#62

Post by tristor »

edgyquant wrote: post #29
meibo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would require them to give refunds at all, the eShop currently does not do that and no one fought them on it yet. Realistically Nintendo can do whatever they want, they could take a dump in times square and people would flock to it. They've been selling broken controllers for 6 years.

I’ve always found this an interesting criticism. Switch controllers might break more often but I’ve never had a game system controller that didn’t end up with drift in the course of a year or two (and I don’t play games often.)

I have two Switches, neither have controller drift, that said, I gamed extensively for decades and game sporadically now. I've never had any first-party controller break, only third-party controllers. The only first-party console issue I've had was the RROD on the Xbox 360, and modified an Xbox 360 Elite to resolve this, and it /still/ works with its original controllers, and is still used sometimes.

That said, as far as first-party products go, the Sony Playstation controllers have been consistently the highest quality products across generations as far as controllers go, but from a feel perspective I prefer the Xbox controllers.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#63

Post by wccrawford »

meibo wrote: post #35
edgyquant wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always found this an interesting criticism. Switch controllers might break more often but I’ve never had a game system controller that didn’t end up with drift in the course of a year or two (and I don’t play games often.)

It's not just drift, even though that statistically is more likely to happen in JoyCons, there were/are quite a few issues with Switch controllers: * Big connectivity issues for a long while after launch(I couldn't play on my couch with the switch in front of my TV) * Aforementioned drift * Sticky buttons on Pro controllers, those still happen * None of the Nintendo controllers correctly advertise polling rate for BT…

"Big connectivity issues for a long while after launch(I couldn't play on my couch with the switch in front of my TV)"

Did they somehow fix that? I basically gave up on my Switch for that reason. Having to lean forward on the couch to get the controller to reliably work was a dealbreaker.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#64

Post by causi »

mehlmao wrote: post #41

On the subject of piracy / DRM, I always think back to Lar's Doucet's piece Piracy and the Four Currencies: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/piracy-and-the-four-c... Lars argues that when people make the decision to buy or pirate something, they're spending four 'currencies' which each person values differently: * Money-dollars * Time-dollars * Pain-in-the-butt-dollars * Integrity-dollars As a teenager, I had n…

I'd call "elitism-dollars" or "user-preference dollars" a fifth currency. I don't emulate because I don't want to pay for games I could get on ebay for five dollars; I emulate because I don't want Ocarina of Time 3D stuck behind a 400x240 screen door or Breath of the Wild locked at 30fps.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#65

Post by sarsway »

tristor wrote: post #59
sarsway wrote: post #49

Lots of Anti-DRM sentiment here, understandably. However, I think the big issue is the Steamdeck becoming a popular platform for Switch emulation. That's simply not ok. It's wild Valve can get away with this. I would think Nintendo would sue, but its probably fruitless.

As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation who also owns two Switches, I can tell you that most of the emulation scene on the Deck is very much /not/ Switch games. It's mostly people emulating games from the NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, PSX, and similar older systems. Most of these games would do well if they had proper re-releases with updated graphics quality, but the rel…

> As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation

And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#66

Post by selfhoster11 »

sarsway wrote: post #49

Lots of Anti-DRM sentiment here, understandably. However, I think the big issue is the Steamdeck becoming a popular platform for Switch emulation. That's simply not ok. It's wild Valve can get away with this. I would think Nintendo would sue, but its probably fruitless.

What do you mean "Valve" is the one getting away with this? Emulation is a choice made by the users. That Steamdeck is not locked down to make arbitrary code execution impossible, is what makes it a good platform.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#67

Post by selfhoster11 »

sarsway wrote: post #65
tristor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation who also owns two Switches, I can tell you that most of the emulation scene on the Deck is very much /not/ Switch games. It's mostly people emulating games from the NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, PSX, and similar older systems. Most of these games would do well if they had proper re-releases with updated graphics quality, but the rel…

> As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in weste…

Then perhaps Nintendo should release their own best Nintendo console ever made.

> intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies

Citation needed. Both me and lots of us here on HN certainly don't hold intellectual property in high regard, because as framework it's done a lot to damage progress.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#68

Post by haunter »

alexb_ wrote: post #8

The normalization of Denuvo, as well as "anti-cheat" protection that involves constant monitoring of your environment, is a fucking travesty for privacy and games. The worst part about Denuvo is that cracking it is game-specific, and there's ~1 person who is willing and able to do it (and currently isn't touching denuvo due to not being donated enough money)

>as well as "anti-cheat" protection

How do you solve cheating problem though? When I sit down playing a multiplayer game I don't want to see anyone cheating, botting etc. It's not fun.

Yes it's a cat and mouse game between the cheat makers and the devs and anti cheat solutions are not perfect but without some anti cheat system most online games would be totally unplayable.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#69

Post by tristor »

sarsway wrote: post #65
tristor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation who also owns two Switches, I can tell you that most of the emulation scene on the Deck is very much /not/ Switch games. It's mostly people emulating games from the NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, PSX, and similar older systems. Most of these games would do well if they had proper re-releases with updated graphics quality, but the rel…

> As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in weste…

> I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies.

Intellectual Property law in the US is a complete mess and any rational analysis would acknowledge that.

That said, I don't play Switch games on my Steam Deck, I don't even have any Switch roms. I own a Switch, why would I play those games on a Steam Deck when I can just play them on the Switch?

Yes, the Steam Deck is the best Nintendo console ever made, for emulating Chrono Trigger (my favorite game, and arguably the greatest RPG of all time, released in 1995 for the SNES), that for some reason Nintendo has never re-released on the Switch or provided in their first-party emulators on Switch, despite it being the most requested game for the platform.

So... I reiterate my original statements. You are blowing up a non-issue out of proportion.

Re: Denuvo Launches Nintendo Switch Emulator Protection

#70

Post by haunter »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #6
josephcsible wrote: post #2

What can we, the tech community, do to make it more likely that this ends up being defeated and an utter failure?

Practically nothing. Don't buy games with DRM or anti-cheat.

>Don't buy games with anti-cheat

So you would let cheaters win? What a weird take. Small amount of people wants to ruin game for everyone > the solution shouldn't be abandoning online games

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