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Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

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Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#171

Post by colordrops »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #141
colordrops wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not true. You'll need to give a specific example of which apps are like this on Android. I'm writing this using a LineageOS phone with no proprietary or closed source apps on it right now.

This is true and can be verified by anyone by installing random applications from Google Play Store without having Google Play Services installed. Since relatively recently, you can use some of them via microG, but compatibility varies. Sure, there's F-Droid and FLOSS software for Android, but if you're already willing to limit yourself to FLOSS Android apps you may very well limit yourself to FLOSS GNU/Linux apps to…

You've moved the goalposts. The original claim was that you couldn't run open source android with calendar, email, etc. But that is obviously not true because I'm doing that right now. Now you are pointing at a bunch of closed source software on Google Play, but that's irrelevant to the discussion. And even then you admit it mostly works with the microg compatibility layer. MicroG and WINE are not much different in this respect IMO.

Secondly, you claim limiting yourself to FLOSS android means you might as well just use FLOSS Linux. But that doesn't make sense because the purely open source elements of the android ecosystem work far better than the pure Linux ecosystem, which is my original point. There is no advantage that you can point to for GNU/Linux over Android/Linux other than just being "pure Linux". Android is fully open source and can be easily run unencumbered by proprietary google software. And there is vastly more open source software that is mobile friendly and compatible for Android/Linux than GNU/Linux.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#172

Post by Legogris »

nivenkos wrote: post #163
3np wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, we don't have the government handing out free handset so opting out is still a legal right and a practically realistic option. My concern is that if few enough people do so, this will no longer be the case for long.

Is it though? Not long ago many European countries required some form of digital COVID pass for travel. Likewise for doing taxes e.g. here in Sweden BankID and Kivra are practically required unless you want to be waiting weeks for letters and queueing at the office.

Last time I tried (granted, years ago), BankID was still relatively straight-forward to set up and use on a PC. Not all sites support the flow, though.

Authorities should also still accept alternatives like Freja (if there's anything they won't close the door on it's making it straightforward to pay your taxes, I guess).

I'm far from happy wit the situation and would prefer that authorities take an open standards-approach compatible with FLOSS. But it's also not as terrible as it may seem at first.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#173

Post by mariusor »

pxc wrote: post #151
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

I took a real interest in 6 or 7 years ago, when it was first coming out. I was excited in part by how much it (as a downstream project of MeeGo) resembled Real Linux™ internally: systemd, RPM/zypper, Wayland. It was awesome . The way it all fit together felt thoughtful and sane. The terminal environment was like a real desktop Linux userland. And the Sailfish UI was really outstanding. It was simple, uniform, and th…

I've been running Sailfish OS since they launched. Currently I do it on a Sony Xperia 10 III. It does all the things expected of a phone.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#174

Post by mariusor »

sgc wrote: post #62
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

I could get by with only using banking websites in the browser. But Why does Jolla not yet support any Pixel phones? I have wanted to try it out for years, but not to the point of trying to make things work on my own.

Probably because Google does not have an equivalent program to the https://opendevices.ix5.org/ that Sony has.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#175

Post by olau »

makz wrote: post #24

Before answering that question I'd ask: why would we want that? My answer is no, it didn't work on the desktop, it won't work on the smartphone, for more or less the same reasons. As much as I like Linux and FOSS, Linux is just a bad OS for the average consumer. For hackers, makers, DYI enthusiasts, etc. Linux is wonderful, however, what's the market size for a Linux smart phone for this people? I bet it's tiny.

That's not really true. The main problem with Linux on the desktop is that it is not preinstalled.

There are commercial vendors like Canonical where you can get support, if you want to.

Now, 20 years ago we could have argued about application support, etc., but these days average consumers just fire up a web browser.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#176

Post by hrbf »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #119
hrbf wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the complexities involved in such an endeavor, I'm still confident in my assessment, especially when confronted with a one-liner just throwing a large number against the wall. If Microsoft couldn't get a mobile OS off the ground, despite trying, I don't see what the opportunity size has anything to do with it. Focusing on (even casual) gamers with specialized hardware works for a gaming-focused company, whereas…

Yes. But the gamer niche is just that. A niche. A toe hold. A position every up and coming brand / product dreams about. They can extend out from there. MS on the other hand, drank its own Kool Aid, threw it's weight around, went all in...and walked away empty handed. There was little value add. There was zero coolness. Etc. There are some similarities but that was then, this is now. A device that's "proven" - and so…

Given the possible target market, there is a reason why only a handful of companies are producing competitive smartphones today. It reads as wishful thinking to me that a competitor would arise, bringing “cool” and “privacy” and whatever else along with them.

If nothing else, you simply couldn’t get the parts and manufacturing capacity needed to go beyond a niche product without effectively building the capacity out of pocket. Not to mention the headaches of dealing with network providers. And you basically will have to become an advanced digital camera manufacturer as well. Add battery life, size and price into the mix and you end up with portable consoles instead of phones. Like we have today.

Simply put: by not doing a general purpose device, you skip several metric tons of issues that occupy your focus but gain you very little.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#177

Post by outsomnia »

nyx_land wrote: post #140
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

Sailfish could have been great, but Jolla apparently tried to overextend themselves making hardware and software for their products and almost died trying. It's a shame because the Jolla phone had a swappable back part and could have things like a slideout keyboard that looked really sweet. Now they're on the enterprise and government contracting grind and market their OS on their site with all the bs enterprisey jar…

Gnome 3 on a phone is actually quite nice.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#178

Post by cma »

jcynix wrote: post #41
lrvick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is Linux but it has nowhere close to the fully open source freedom of a traditional Linux workstation. This is why I carry a tiny linux laptop.

I'm quite happy with Termux on Android. Allows me to rsync my data for backup or imports, I can ssh into real Linux machines, process images with ImageMagick, etc. Sharing documents from inside other apps works too (you can set up scripts in Termux as receivers). Sure, full control of a device would be great, but I'm better off with Android after I migrated from IOS.

Bad news: Android blocks exec in newer API versions. Termux isn't going to be able to use newer API features as they release, unless they rewrite their own ELF loader. exec is now only allowed on executables within the apk, nothing fetched from termux's repositories.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#179

Post by bayindirh »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #123
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

"the ID monopoly and Payment monopoly refuse to support other operating systems" This is my issue. I am commonly hearing people ask "What are you, iOS or Android?" - IE as if it is inherent to the person themselves and there are only two choices. This is scary. I love the idea of having an alternative to iOS and Android. But I also need to function within society. This shouldn't be a choice.

Even if you use Android, using a custom ROM locks you out of your SIM based electronic signature, which is a showstopper for my case.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#180

Post by oblak »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #164
3np wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, we don't have the government handing out free handset so opting out is still a legal right and a practically realistic option. My concern is that if few enough people do so, this will no longer be the case for long.

The crazy thing was during COVID everyone seemed to launch an app - iOS or Android. What happened to websites? Did they suddenly become impossible to secure or communicate with?

Don't remind me. I tried to fight it for a decade. I was mad. MAD.

We are being actively PUSHED into this shit and almost everyone seems to be totally fine with it. They are herding us into complete obedience. A phone is more secure because when you install their apps, they can monitor everything you do. Banking? Mobile. Document signing? Mobile. Toilet paper? Mobile.

I am making a bet here: buy the end of the decade, every EU citizen will be directly required to go either Android or Apple. Two platforms under complete European control.

Frankly, I blame the masses for falling for it. It's always the masses. Once the cabal swoops in the vast majority, the rest is taken care of by society itself.

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