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Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

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Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#121

Post by giantrobot »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #40
kitsunesoba wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vanilla Android or AOSP might kinda have “Linux Spirit” but I’m not sure what gets shipped on most consumer devices does… lots of random things locked down (including boot loader, sometimes), crapware all over the place, drivers and kernel changes that aren’t upstreamed making it difficult to install anything but carrier/manufacturer-flavored Android, etc. I think most people rooting for “smartphone Linux” are lookin…

My pixel broke (was running CalyxOS, lineage before that), and I had to get a quick burner phone to make work calls. Got a $200 dollar used samsung. I didn't realize what utter trash nonsense is loaded onto normal phones. It's absolutely bonkers what Samsung did to destroy Android with no value add.

> It's absolutely bonkers what Samsung did to destroy Android with no value add.

They added value, just not for end users.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#122

Post by colordrops »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #114
colordrops wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about the google user space apps? There are viable open source alternatives for all of them. It's like saying Linux is not open source because Redhat bundles proprietary software with their distro.

This could have been a reasonable analogy if a very significant chunk of applications "for Linux" only worked (or offered its full functionality) if you had Red Hat's proprietary addons installed.

That's just not true. You'll need to give a specific example of which apps are like this on Android. I'm writing this using a LineageOS phone with no proprietary or closed source apps on it right now.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#123

Post by _carbyau_ »

z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

"the ID monopoly and Payment monopoly refuse to support other operating systems"

This is my issue. I am commonly hearing people ask "What are you, iOS or Android?" - IE as if it is inherent to the person themselves and there are only two choices.

This is scary. I love the idea of having an alternative to iOS and Android. But I also need to function within society. This shouldn't be a choice.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#124

Post by midoridensha »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #114
colordrops wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about the google user space apps? There are viable open source alternatives for all of them. It's like saying Linux is not open source because Redhat bundles proprietary software with their distro.

This could have been a reasonable analogy if a very significant chunk of applications "for Linux" only worked (or offered its full functionality) if you had Red Hat's proprietary addons installed.

Many millions of people in China happily use Android smartphones every day without any Google apps at all.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#126

Post by School-Cotton »

aquaduck wrote: post #58
makz wrote: post #24

Before answering that question I'd ask: why would we want that? My answer is no, it didn't work on the desktop, it won't work on the smartphone, for more or less the same reasons. As much as I like Linux and FOSS, Linux is just a bad OS for the average consumer. For hackers, makers, DYI enthusiasts, etc. Linux is wonderful, however, what's the market size for a Linux smart phone for this people? I bet it's tiny.

Didn't work on the desktop? I've been running Linux exclusively on my desktops for 15 years. Desktop Linux is better today than it's ever been. Why does every OS need to be suitable for average consumers? Librem and Pine64 are doing great work in the mobile Linux space on the hardware side, and projects like PostmarketOS are doing great work on the software side. These are niche products for motivated enthusiasts, as…

I think you’re saying basically the same thing as the person you responded to.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#127

Post by School-Cotton »

what-imright wrote: post #68
tingletech wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of the user space tools originated from GNU (such as gcc), linux really just brought the kernel.

Just? It’s 28 million lines of code, the world’s largest software project

What counts as one software project? The combined Facebook codebase, for example, is surely larger than that.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#128

Post by benreesman »

Pardon a minor correction, what you mean by “Linux” is more properly termed “GNU/Linux”, or as I’ve taken recently to calling it, “GNU plus Linux” which reflects that Linux is merely the “kernel”…

So yeah, Linux runs on more smartphones than all other kernels put together.

GNU/Linux? At scale? Not a fucking chance.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#129

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

tingletech wrote: post #33
what-imright wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the title “Is there hope for linux on smartphones?”? If it said “Is there hope for GNU on smartphones?” the answer would be a resounding no, because the community is fractured and politicized to the degree the products are uncompetitive. Pinephone is an example. Then there was the Ubuntu effort. Android, being partly closed as the GPL2 allows for, is proof that Linux can be highly successful without the GNU cr…

most of the user space tools originated from GNU (such as gcc), linux really just brought the kernel.

Alpine Linux and clang say otherwise. GNU is good, but it's not the only Linux userspace.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#130

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

3836293648 wrote: post #76
JCWasmx86 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the kernel is Linux, but with the "Linux" that is meant here, it has basically nothing in common, be it e.g. in the userland or "the spirit". The Linux from "Linux Smartphones" e.g. fosters an open, user-first ecosystem, as opposed to the often very closed and locked Android Smartphones. Another examples are e.g. Safetynet or the Google Play Integrity API. Those primarily don't server the users. Or apps that eit…

Just the kernel is linux, but isn't basically all of the hardware support we need in the kernel? Sure, we're still out of luck with trying to run mainline kernels, but what's stopping us from running normal GNU userland on top of a working Android kernel?

Not all the hardware support is internal for Android devices, but yes you're basically asking for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybris_(software)
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