Live data from Hacker News

FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

xyinn.org

91–100 of 163 posts

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying FreeBSD is not robust? Did you confirm that it is the operating system that is leaking memory and not your application? If that's true, that's huge and you should file a report. Better yet, write a blog post about the details and how to recreate it.

I read that as "the hardware is failing but FreeBSD is still trucking right along"

My bad, I misunderstood as sarcasm.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#92

Serious question: what is so compelling about the FreeBSD desktop experience compared to Linux that makes it worth jumping through all these hoops?

The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros.

Also, because they don't change gratuitously, once you learn their quirks, you can move on to other things without needing to worry about re-learning tons about the next update. Linux is a constantly moving target with lots of churn that users of computers really don't want or need.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#93
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not that simple. FreeBSD has some contribution from businesses like Netflix and Nginx and those are very welcome, but they have nothing to do with desktop usage. Those have deadlines and budgets, features get implemented and tested. That's why FreeBSD has superb network stack, good NUMA support, files from disk to nic go brrr. That's why the move to OpenZFS was so fast. Then, they're contributions without…

Seriously - more than anything I feel like FreeBSD is a server OS first and foremost. Or more realistically something with lower flexibility that makes it ideal for more niche use cases as a pseudo "lower level" OS. The way I see it the two things you want MOST reliable are storages and network - and all the other features of most operating systems are just unnecessary fluff for those. What I would like to see howeve…

Well PlayStation 4 and 5 are on FreeBSD. Modified of course.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#94

Serious question: what is so compelling about the FreeBSD desktop experience compared to Linux that makes it worth jumping through all these hoops?

The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. Also, because they don't change gratuitously, once you learn their quirks, you can move on to other things without needing to worry about re-learning tons about the next update. Linux is a constantly moving target with lots of churn that users of computers really don't want or need.

So I certainly understand some of the frustration around churn, and I get that on hardware selected to run BSD, this probably doesn't matter nearly as much

But...

This article describes (at least in my opinion) an unusable and unstable machine.

Basic HDMI out and Ethernet aren't "optional" on machines I run. Frankly - I'd rather lose wifi/bluetooth than HDMI and Ethernet (not that bluetooth is working here either...).

So I guess my point is that

>that users of computers really don't want or need

seems very much like a personal opinion. I not only want churn if it's bringing online more hardware support - I find the lack of support here completely unsuited to my needs.

If this is what you mean by "clean"... then It feels a bit like keeping a boardgame in the shrink wrap - rather than getting it out, bending a few cards, and having a good time. At least to me (fully admit this is also just an opinion).

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#95

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

Quoted post unavailable.

i... what...?

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#96
post #55

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I u…

I haven't used much of FreeBSD in quite a while and have largely settled for the simplicity that is OpenBSD, even with all its varied drawbacks. However, I was surprised with some other things you mentioned as I thought FreeBSD would do better than OpenBSD in these spaces:

> Not once had a laptop that isn't a MacBook with macOS with properly working hibernation.

OpenBSD can pull this off, though the process is not very performant.

> ...802.11g is as fast as you can go without wifibox.

There are a few different Wi-Fi card options that will support 11ac on OpenBSD. Yes, it's not the full 11ac implementation, but some is better than none.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#97
post #55

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I u…

It's true that some hardware is not Linux compatible, but if you get stuff that is (like the Framework 12th gen I'm typing this on), it does in fact just work out of the box. Wifi, sound, GPU, fingerprint reader, suspend, the works.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#98
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations that don’t want to share code don’t share it even when copyleft.

From the opinion article I linked: >At the end of the day, though, what does it matter? What is a totally unenforced GPL? It's just a Cuck License—Isn't that what license cucks want? So why should they care? At their very best, BSD and MIT licenses are only what GPL might be at its very worst. >The GPL is a permanent liability for any company that crosses it. Some companies might be so bold to lift GPL code and hide…

Those comments are unrelated. The point they were making is that if companies don't want to release source, they will either use a permissively licensed open source project as the base, or they will roll their own (probably lower quality) proprietary version. Or they'll pull an nvidia and release some hacky shim/workaround that breaks all the time and leads to bad user experience.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#99
post #68
post #47

I want to try BSD one day but these sorts of articles put me off. I used to enjoy trying to get things working but I just don't have that sort of time anymore. I understand that the community only has so many resources to support the various hardware around. I suspect one BSDs strengths is that the smaller community is able to follow a more cohesive vision. But for me this means I'm probably not going learn it until…

In every image I've seen of a FreeBSD developer conference, the vast majority of the developers are running FreeBSD in a virtual machine on a Macbook. I guess they aren't considering real hardware support as a priority.

You aren't wrong. This is part of the reason I tend to buy ThinkPads; a large portion of the OpenBSD developers use ThinkPads and dogfood OpenBSD on them!

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#100

Serious question: what is so compelling about the FreeBSD desktop experience compared to Linux that makes it worth jumping through all these hoops?

The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. Also, because they don't change gratuitously, once you learn their quirks, you can move on to other things without needing to worry about re-learning tons about the next update. Linux is a constantly moving target with lots of churn that users of computers really don't want or need.

>The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros.

I see this opinion a lot, but what tangible benefits does that result in?

Post reply on HN