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FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

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Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#61
post #53
post #2

> wifibox essentially spins up an Alpine Linux VM using FreeBSD's bhyve virtualization technology, and allows you to passthrough your machine's wireless card Jesus christ.

Not that different from a Linux user using NDISwrapper to run a Windows wireless driver on Linux.

NDISwrapper was more like wine, it implements APIs but doesn't run any sort of virtual CPU.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#62
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I u…

On Windows the first thing I always do is turn off hibernation. It made a bigger difference back in the day since the swap was on a spinning disk but it still has a little performance improvement and nets you a bit more ram. With machines booting up so fast these days I personally avoid anything related to hibernate / sleep.

True, but I never turn off my Mac unless I'm installing updates. A few times a year, I have an issue from resume (from Suspend to RAM) on a desktop - GPU won't wake up.

When I had an Nvidia card, this issue would happen every other day, so I had to disable sleep and hibernate. Because it was a very shitty way to start your day.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#63
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a dongle, just purchase a supported wifi card. I put a supported atheros card in my framework laptop and the wifi works flawlessly, natively. The framework laptop is designed to be opened and have the parts replaced, so its the perfect laptop for doing hardware changes like this.

Does this actually support operating on 5GHz, or is it still stuck in the 2.4GHz era? I'm not aware of any FreeBSD-compatible wifi cards that actually do this. (I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm super tired of people saying "wifi cards work fine on FreeBSD" when the reality is that the speeds are sub-optimal without a way to improve it currently)

Yep! Its both 2.4ghz and 5ghz, but only 802.11n which is fine. Certainly not the newest wifi standard, but 802.11n is plenty fast.

dmesg | grep ath:

    [ath_dfs] loaded
    [ath_rate] loaded
    [ath] loaded
    ath0:  mem 0x7a200000-0x7a27ffff at device 0.0 on pci2
    ath0: [HT] enabling HT modes
    ath0: [HT] enabling short-GI in 20MHz mode
    ath0: [HT] 1 stream STBC receive enabled
    ath0: [HT] 1 stream STBC transmit enabled
    ath0: [HT] LDPC transmit/receive enabled
    ath0: [HT] 2 RX streams; 2 TX streams
    ath0: AR9460 mac 640.3 RF5110 phy 0.0
    ath0: 2GHz radio: 0x0000; 5GHz radio: 0x0000
    ath0: ath_edma_recv_tasklet: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; skipping
    ath0: ath_edma_recv_tasklet: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; skipping
I confirmed by checking wpa_cli scan_results and I saw my 5ghz-only ssid (not listing the output here for privacy)

Its an AR9462 which I purchased off thinkpenguin

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s probably true but it cuts both ways too. I don’t know if the lack of copy left license is the problem as much as the momentum. The various Unix and BSD wars (that were predicated on a much different licensing challenge) and splintering of the communities has meant there was never a big way for developer or even manufacturer interest to really focus. OpenBSD has a very different philosophy related to drivers th…

Well, it's not that simple. FreeBSD has some contribution from businesses like Netflix and Nginx and those are very welcome, but they have nothing to do with desktop usage. Those have deadlines and budgets, features get implemented and tested. That's why FreeBSD has superb network stack, good NUMA support, files from disk to nic go brrr. That's why the move to OpenZFS was so fast. Then, they're contributions without…

Seriously - more than anything I feel like FreeBSD is a server OS first and foremost. Or more realistically something with lower flexibility that makes it ideal for more niche use cases as a pseudo "lower level" OS. The way I see it the two things you want MOST reliable are storages and network - and all the other features of most operating systems are just unnecessary fluff for those.

What I would like to see however is maybe some specific wifi chip or USB/thunderbolt Ethernet adapter that is certified to work well with FreeBSD - for testing purposes and as a mobile network tool it would be useful to have a laptop running FreeBSD in a VM that could communicate over that dedicated piece of hardware. This would make it super convenient to test a bunch of physical hardware or do all kinds of other infrastructure work while remote.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#65

Serious question: what is so compelling about the FreeBSD desktop experience compared to Linux that makes it worth jumping through all these hoops?

Some folks just prefer BSD over other variants. I learned on old school SunOS so that might be why I prefer it.

SysV based Solaris left a bad taste and Linux just seemed unnecessarily weird. 386/Net/FreeBSD was fast, a stable, simple to configure and most importantly familiar.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#67
post #37

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

Ethernet is likely a Realtek chipset (on the docking station). Intel does not do Ethernet over USB chipsets.

The Ethernet expansion card uses a Realtek 2.5Gb/s controller with a USB-C connection to the laptop.

This is a fairly new controller that may not have a FreeBSD driver yet.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#68
post #47

I want to try BSD one day but these sorts of articles put me off. I used to enjoy trying to get things working but I just don't have that sort of time anymore. I understand that the community only has so many resources to support the various hardware around. I suspect one BSDs strengths is that the smaller community is able to follow a more cohesive vision. But for me this means I'm probably not going learn it until…

In every image I've seen of a FreeBSD developer conference, the vast majority of the developers are running FreeBSD in a virtual machine on a Macbook. I guess they aren't considering real hardware support as a priority.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#69
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually support operating on 5GHz, or is it still stuck in the 2.4GHz era? I'm not aware of any FreeBSD-compatible wifi cards that actually do this. (I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm super tired of people saying "wifi cards work fine on FreeBSD" when the reality is that the speeds are sub-optimal without a way to improve it currently)

Yep! Its both 2.4ghz and 5ghz, but only 802.11n which is fine. Certainly not the newest wifi standard, but 802.11n is plenty fast. dmesg | grep ath: [ath_dfs] loaded [ath_rate] loaded [ath] loaded ath0: mem 0x7a200000-0x7a27ffff at device 0.0 on pci2 ath0: [HT] enabling HT modes ath0: [HT] enabling short-GI in 20MHz mode ath0: [HT] 1 stream STBC receive enabled ath0: [HT] 1 stream STBC transmit enabled ath0: [HT] LDP…

Appreciate it! This is helpful and the kind of info I like seeing. :)
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