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FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

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Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.

Aren't most Linux drivers closed source binary blobs?

The nvidia drivers sure are. I don't know about most drivers though. As for wifi, I own this ath9k card which I'm told is completely free, but I also own this intel 3160 chip that apparently requires some firmware to be loaded.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wire...

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.

Aren't most Linux drivers closed source binary blobs?

No? The vast majority of hardware has OSS drivers (and they're usually even the better choice!) - the big exception here for average machines is NVIDIA.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#25

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.

That’s probably true but it cuts both ways too.

I don’t know if the lack of copy left license is the problem as much as the momentum.

The various Unix and BSD wars (that were predicated on a much different licensing challenge) and splintering of the communities has meant there was never a big way for developer or even manufacturer interest to really focus.

OpenBSD has a very different philosophy related to drivers than FreeBSD and for very understandable reasons, most of the BSDs don’t want to use or touch GPL code.

The copyleft nature of the GPL definitely helped Linux, but I don’t think it’s the only reason Linux was successful.

But Linux got its shit together first and was able to benefit from that. Apple and to a lesser-extent, Solaris, show that you can still have broader hardware support and drivers without a copyleft license.

I do think that if companies could easily port their Linux drivers, you’d see that happen. That’s absolutely a consequence of the license choice (and it’s a consequence from either license decision). But if there is a market for the BSDs in a particular area, I do think you see companies making drivers.

The reality is, the market for people running FreeBSD on laptops is pretty small and probably not worth it for a lot of WiFi chipset makers. But if you had a specific industry where FreeBSD was widely deployed, I do think you’d have broader hardware support for things important to that industry, if nothing else.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#26
post #20

This is nice. Couple of days ago I published 80 pages work describing my experience installing FreeBSD on Lenovo Ideapad 3 Gaming laptop and making it to work. The article is in Russian, but I think it can be easily read through Google Translate, here's the link: https://habr-com.translate.goog/en/post/683702/?_x_tr_sl=ru&... My experience was pretty similar to that of the owner of Framework laptop, except some extra…

Did you really write all of those pages by hand?? It appears incredibly comprehensive. Did you write it just for fun?

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#27
post #17
post #2

> wifibox essentially spins up an Alpine Linux VM using FreeBSD's bhyve virtualization technology, and allows you to passthrough your machine's wireless card Jesus christ.

That is my initial reaction, but ... a minimal linux VM in a minimal hypervisor, might not be that bad, for a network adapter. Perhaps -40MB- 128MB of memory? Double the context switching? Sounds kinda like a micro-kernel driver. Have you ever tried to install a minimal driver for a printer in windows, and then watched in horror as it automatically started downloading 600MB of HP junk?

> Have you ever tried to install a minimal driver for a printer in windows, and then watched in horror as it automatically started downloading 600MB of HP junk?

Never have I changed my opinion on something (a VM for a fricking driver) so quickly. Good job.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#28
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easier than writing a driver for FreeBSD yourself, I suppose, although I'd probably just get a USB Wi-Fi dongle instead of worry about walking into a meeting and my Wi-Fi driver VM crashing :) (or, just run Linux and run FreeBSD in a VM, but that's no way to support a niche operating system...)

You don't need a dongle, just purchase a supported wifi card. I put a supported atheros card in my framework laptop and the wifi works flawlessly, natively. The framework laptop is designed to be opened and have the parts replaced, so its the perfect laptop for doing hardware changes like this.

Does this actually support operating on 5GHz, or is it still stuck in the 2.4GHz era? I'm not aware of any FreeBSD-compatible wifi cards that actually do this.

(I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm super tired of people saying "wifi cards work fine on FreeBSD" when the reality is that the speeds are sub-optimal without a way to improve it currently)

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#29

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.

I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed.

FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#30
post #20

This is nice. Couple of days ago I published 80 pages work describing my experience installing FreeBSD on Lenovo Ideapad 3 Gaming laptop and making it to work. The article is in Russian, but I think it can be easily read through Google Translate, here's the link: https://habr-com.translate.goog/en/post/683702/?_x_tr_sl=ru&... My experience was pretty similar to that of the owner of Framework laptop, except some extra…

Did you really write all of those pages by hand?? It appears incredibly comprehensive. Did you write it just for fun?

Yes, I wrote it just for fun. It was a kind of challenge for me, both resolving issues and describing them in detail to let new people in town learn how issues can be resolved. Last time I wrote anything that long was my diploma thesis 20+ years go. :-) This work took me nearly four months to accomplish.
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