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Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

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Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#221
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone just the other day said Hetzner did the exact same thing though...

I'm not a blind fan of Hetzner and I'm aware of their limitations, but billing works extremely well for me, and they're very patient with me when I forget to pay an invoice (sending friendly reminders and not threatening to cut me off right away). However, I remember a case when I was the culprit - spam was being sent from one of my servers (one of the users had a common username and password, something I should have…

Hetzner also has a customer service phone number that you can call. I've never seen anything like that from Google.

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backups to another provider are very costly for most users due to egress bandwidth pricing. Most backup systems can't do efficient incremental diffs either - so you end up sending your companies entire database every 12/24 hours, burning through a lot of bandwidth.

Would have through incremental backup (replication) would be a core feature of most databases.

I think the problem is that replication alone isn't enough. You also need to support snapshots for backups because you don't want to replay years worth of replication logs to do a restore.

And when you support snapshots in your backup software, it's very tempting to then drop support for replication...

Replication logs also have another problem - since they include every data change, certain types of database updates, for example a large field that changes hundreds of times per second, can work out far less bandwidth to just snapshot periodically.

Overall, all this stuff is a lot of complexity most businesses don't want to have. They just want to have a simple backup solution and get back to building their product. And that usually involves using some managed database where backups are just an option in the control panel. Or a self-managed database where backups are disk snapshots. Or a script that copies a database dump to S3 every day. But it hardly ever involves streaming change logs...

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#223
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are paying for the load/pressure, what's the problem?

Backblaze is very cheap and has several "don't overload our system" clauses in their terms and conditions. They're cheap and reliable, that generally comes at the risk of early termination. I don't think you can have a cheap, reliable, unlimited service; pick two at most.

Indeed. If a customer tries to backup a petabyte of data on the base plan (because it’s “unlimited”) and they get the boot, they really shouldn’t be that surprised. Wouldn’t really compare it to OP’s situation, where they got an assurance in writing they were in good standing, and didn’t appear to be blocked for violating ToS.

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#224
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post sounds like war on drugs, on paper it makes sense but does not work in real life. Do you really think an industry like oil refinery can be managed with a limit of 150 people?

The point is not to limit the size of the industry. It is to limit the size of a company . Think of a oil refinery as a monolith, and that such a mandate would enforce that you'd have to build the whole system a set of independent microservices. The industry as a whole would still employ a large number of people, but now they would be forced to coordinate through specific interfaces (the smaller business units) inste…

Like the Amazon’s “API” mandate, as famously described by Steve Yegge:

So one day Jeff Bezos issued a mandate. He's doing that all the time, of course, and people scramble like ants being pounded with a rubber mallet whenever it happens. But on one occasion -- back around 2002 I think, plus or minus a year -- he issued a mandate that was so out there, so huge and eye-bulgingly ponderous, that it made all of his other mandates look like unsolicited peer bonuses.

His Big Mandate went something along these lines:

1) All teams will henceforth expose their data and functionality through service interfaces.

2) Teams must communicate with each other through these interfaces.

3) There will be no other form of interprocess communication allowed: no direct linking, no direct reads of another team's data store, no shared-memory model, no back-doors whatsoever. The only communication allowed is via service interface calls over the network.

4) It doesn't matter what technology they use. HTTP, Corba, Pubsub, custom protocols -- doesn't matter. Bezos doesn't care.

5) All service interfaces, without exception, must be designed from the ground up to be externalizable. That is to say, the team must plan and design to be able to expose the interface to developers in the outside world. No exceptions.

6) Anyone who doesn't do this will be fired.

https://gist.github.com/chitchcock/1281611

Maybe the government could do something similar?

Huh, here’s an idea: Maybe Jeff Bezos did what he did because he was fearing just such a goverment-mandated breakup, and wanted Amazon to be prepared for it?

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#225
post #142

Generally, all cloud providers have two ways of engaging with and billing customers. One is using a credit card, which is very easy for getting started. The other one is having an established relationship with a sales / account team and setting up billing by invoice. Smaller companies sometimes don't understand that and stick with credit card billing for too long. Once you move to production and have your own custome…

What is this fud? Both AWS and Azure won't suspend your account for several months, even with charges failing. Especially not if you're communicating with them. It's incredibly easy to get a hold of human support in case of the other clouds.

I forgot to pay 200$ Azure bill on a test account for 3 months because I missed the mails. They just waived that one after 3 months without me even requesting and I've been paying since. Google is just hostile to everyone by default.

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#227
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unregulated banking tend to have a bit more ponzi schemes, pump and dump, and money laundering than regulated banking. Unregulated auto tend to have a bit more lemon markets than regulated auto. Unregulated healthcare tend to have a bit more snake oil, blood letting and cocaine than regulated healthcare. Unregulated food sector tend to have a bit more Listeria and Salmonella then regulated food sector. No regulation…

I did not argue that regulation is unnecessary or bad. The argument is that regulation of Big Industries does not bring you better support nor makes the companies more focused in treating customers as individuals.

It all depend on the reason and target of the regulation. Patients might have historically liked doctors more when they prescribed cocaine, alcohol and morphine for most ailments, but then the target of modern regulation is not customer short-term happiness. It is health.

The issue of regulating big industries and big tech in particular is what outcomes we want to avoid and how a healthy market can be created where one does not exist. Words like infrastructure, platforms, and lock-in are all associated with a lack of market choice and competition. Bad support could be a symptom of that, but the target of regulations wouldn't be about support but rather to avoid having a situation where citizens are unknowingly building their homes and companies on quicksand.

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#228
post #142

Generally, all cloud providers have two ways of engaging with and billing customers. One is using a credit card, which is very easy for getting started. The other one is having an established relationship with a sales / account team and setting up billing by invoice. Smaller companies sometimes don't understand that and stick with credit card billing for too long. Once you move to production and have your own custome…

What is this fud? Both AWS and Azure won't suspend your account for several months, even with charges failing. Especially not if you're communicating with them. It's incredibly easy to get a hold of human support in case of the other clouds.

We use Azure and Linode for all of our cloud services. The number one reason: we can contact human support at any time and we have a designated customer success manager. In many situation this proved to be critical, especially for resolving paiement issues, etc

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#229
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post sounds like war on drugs, on paper it makes sense but does not work in real life. Do you really think an industry like oil refinery can be managed with a limit of 150 people?

The point is not to limit the size of the industry. It is to limit the size of a company . Think of a oil refinery as a monolith, and that such a mandate would enforce that you'd have to build the whole system a set of independent microservices. The industry as a whole would still employ a large number of people, but now they would be forced to coordinate through specific interfaces (the smaller business units) inste…

Capitalism would not allow such a company to exists. There would be too much bottlenecks and the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing scenario and the end product would be more expensive compared to a company with no such limitation. Buyers would prefer buying the product at much cheaper rates and then just transporting it to their locations.

Re: Tell HN: Google Cloud suspended our production projects at 1am on Saturday

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share more info please? Was it because card didn't go through? I've got some important stuff there.

It has been covered here on HN several times, but to summarize: Budget cloud hosting on a credit card allows scammers to use stolen CC numbers to spin up VMs to mine crypto. Essentially the hosting company is offering a cash equivalent for unreliable credit . This kind of abuse occurs at enormous scale, because it can be worth it for an attacker to use botnets to throw tens of thousands of credit cards at hosting com…

Thanks for this very detailed explanation, much appreciated!
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