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The erosion of the Mac experience

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Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#361
post #161

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

Don't worry I'm European and 90% of developers I know think exactly like you (and me). It's just that the HN crowd is typically North American, and people tend to like what they have grown with.

All the European developers I worked with in Berlin used Macs. I can understand using Linux, but using Windows as a web developer just doesn't make sense because all of the tutorials and stack overflow discussions and forum discussions will assume you're using a Unix shell.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#362

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

I'm not one to defend the "mac experience" but some of the stuff you mention I actually really like, namely like the separate key-combo for switching between app windows and the two modes of full screen (although I never use full-full screen anymore).

Finder is definitely not great. It's improved over the years which is kind of sad as it's not a whole lot better. You still can't cmd+x a file to move it to another location. I'm not sure when it happened (probably a while ago) but you can actually rename files in open dialogs now! I didn't notice when it happened because I gave up trying many years ago.

Anyway, I like macos as it gives me a linux-esque command-line experience out of the box without having dive into managing a Linux installs (although that's probably not as big a deal as I think it is), because the hardware is nice, and otherwise because it's just what I'm used to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For non-developer reasons, Logic, even though not the best, is so insanely cheap for what you get, and as a light gamer, Minecraft runs decently well on my Mac Mini.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#363
post #276
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Europe and 95% of the engineers I've worked with here in major companies use a Mac. A few use Linux, absolutely no one I know (300+ developers I've interacted/paired with in the past 7 years) had a Windows machine. Not a single one.

Outside iOS projects, and our designers, I have seldom see people use Mac's. In fact our Java folks get macbooks as option, and eventually many of whom end up migrating to ThinkPads with Red-Hat/Windows, when starting to deal with complex workloads. On the .NET teams everyone is on Windows ThinkPads.

These are java developers, though, so probably the dregs.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#364

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

So you just put up with a crappy trackpad?

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s preferred due to several reasons: - lack of degradation of performance due to bloated registry, fragmented disks (probably out of date but still hurts my soul to think out) - a control panel that doesn’t suck - several things due to its unix heritage which are far better then windows imo (case sensitive file system, bash/zsh terminal) - lack of concern regarding bloatware installed by vendors - don’t have to cra…

I prefer macOS over Windows, but I think a lot of your points are... outdated, or just outright myths to begin with. I can't find any (non-anecdotal) evidence that a "bloated" registry impacts performance at all on a modern system. If you have benchmarks or something, I would love to see them! (not being a jerk, I really would). If you think macOS applications cleanly uninstall when you drag them to the trash, that d…

> Anyway, I think in 2022, operating system choice is more of a personal preference thing than a technical one. They're all equally bad, just in different ways.

I like most of your post since I agree with a lot of it, but I'd like to try to convince you that it's never been better to be a computer user. OSes are _mostly_ stable, have a clear design goal for users, have multiple well supported shell environments for power users, extremely strong cross-system software (i.e., you can use Firefox et. al., on basically anything), plugging in hardware very likely will "just work" for most hardware, the list goes on.

Most importantly, UI/UX conventions are pretty well established regardless of the OS you pick; for example, while I'm rarely in an actual UI on the linux boxes I work with, more or less it works the way I expect based on Mac/Windows. Hitting the CMD/Meta key brings up a system search utility (this is partially happenstance from MacOS as I believe it's the default hotkey for spotlight...but I use quicksilver on ctrl+space so I might be mistaken) Even the mobile space between major Android releases and iOS are very consistent, Android having a slight blemish in the regional minor releases that lack major Android features.

The point is that I think a lot of established UI/UX defaults for OSes are mature enough that edge cases or test cases are the rough edges. There are elements from each OS I miss, elements they share which are equally frustrating (truly, I wish MS and Apple would document the registry/defaults command respectively in full. Both let you tweak the system to an amazing degree to make a perfectly customizable experience, but you basically have to hope someone else has posted it on stackoverflow/reddit/whatever if you want to discover it).

I grew up starting with Mac OS6 and didn't touch a Windows computer until well into my teens or use one daily until I was 20, and the adaptation period was literally a day or two. My friend was windows/linux for his entire life, saw me using my Mac for browsing tabletop PDFs when we were in university, and was intrigued by the way the UI/UX worked and has been a convert ever since, learning the UI in a few days and only a few questions.

It's really never been better to be a user, and I'm kind of amazed that OS wars continue in 2022. Computers are great. Software/Tech Companies are another story...

> I can't find any (non-anecdotal) evidence that a "bloated" registry impacts performance at all on a modern system. If you have benchmarks or something, I would love to see them! (not being a jerk, I really would).

have to comment on this because I agree, it's a non-issue, but the number of registry cleaners that exist or people's self-invented solutions cause far more problems than they solve. Which is a pretty easy task as typically they solve 0 problems directly.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#366

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

I'm with you, I'm a dev who prefers Windows over Mac. I'm convinced that most Mac users don't use multiple monitors and they're completely fine with the really poor window management. It boggles my mind; I am objectively less productive with a single monitor than I am with multiple.

Longtime user of a 2-3 display setup here, and I would strongly disagree. If anything Windows’ support of multiple displays is bad… last I knew it couldn’t even set per-display or per-virtual-desktop wallpapers, and its virtual desktop support (which is essential for a multi monitor setup in my eyes) is nowhere near as mature as that of macOS or practically any Linux DE.

The key is that with macOS, you don’t really manage windows. Just let windows be where they will, like papers on a desk, and then manage desktops. While I’m working I’m constantly flipping between desktops on both my primary and secondary displays, with the primary display being set up with desktops of primary windows and the secondary display being set up with desktops of secondary and tertiary windows. The ability to mix and match sets between displays is powerful and way more natural to me than cobbling together some kind of overcomplicated window snapping setup or something like that.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#367
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you failed to answer, then doubled down and hoped nobody would notice. We noticed.

my answer was everything - you miss the entire computing experience if you use windows or linux on desktop today or android on mobile. In 2022, if you aren’t using Apple you’re in the red. You might as well not have bothered. Windows is worse than nothing. Android is worse than nothing. Linux is awesome for servers, but the desktop experience isn’t quite there. I’ve used all the platforms. Windows and android are inc…

Have you ever heard of something called "hyperbole"?

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#368

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

FYI for anyone who doesn't know: that other shortcut is Command+` to cycle between windows of one application. It's totally nondiscoverable (I read about it here), but once I learned that, it felt amazingly intuitive to separate the concerns of application-switching and window-switching. And Command+` works consistently on MacOS, unlike on Windows where every app reimplements its own multiple-document interface and s…

Yeah agree here. It makes sense to have a shortcut to only cycle over the windows of the same app. In the example where you have 5 windows in an editor.. how nice that you can only cycle over those instead of also the other 20 windows you have open

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#369

I have been hearing this for almost 2 decades now, as long as I’ve been following the ‘community’. Meanwhile, in my real life, my parents, wife, kids, and friends, are all happier than they ever ever been with their latest MacBooks and macOS. Things like iCloud photo syncing, universal control, and airdrop feel boring to us, but they make the computing experience feel pretty much like living in the future for them.

Your parents, kids et cetera aren't power users though. Macs used to be for professionals, but Apple started seriously chasing the consumer demographic with the original iMac.

Macs are far better for power users now than they were 10 years ago. They're also faster!

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give an example of some “bad UX paradigms”?

Sure. I don't keep a running list of this (and I feel like I've seen some, but can't find them now) so it's a little off the cuff... - Scrollbars not appearing until you attempt scrolling, so no indication that there is more content to scroll to. If you mouse-wheel scroll, then try to move over to click and drag, sometimes the scrollbar disappears before you can grab it. Yes, you can change this default, but... it's…

If you want to see scrollbars everywhere then I'm not going to read the rest of your comment.
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