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Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

economist.com

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Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#531

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #165
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, absolutely. It is totally embarrassing to watch my UK family or EU friends interact with their banking systems and compare it with the US. To be fair, things are improving a little bit. But we're still so very far behind the EU banking system. Instant, cost-free transfers between any two accounts, completed faster than you can lift your finger off your smartphone.

> Instant, cost-free transfers between any two accounts, completed faster than you can lift your finger off your smartphone. This is available to most people in the US via Zelle. I have been using it for nearly 10 years I think. https://www.zellepay.com/get-started Ideally, the federal government would have already made it a utility available to all, but for now the functionality is there for those who can get a bank…

[deleted]

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#533

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

eek2121 wrote: post #431
brewdad wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You at least have a PIN with your cc. In the US, it's signature or...nothing. Almost everywhere it's a tap or insert the chip. Still a mag stripe swipe in a few places but that's becoming more rare.

You described the US (regarding not signing, you are mistaken about the signature aspect). Most places stopped accepting signatures several years ago. Card readers are almost always 'insert' except in the very rare case where a card doesn't have a chip. Tap and pay is not common, however tap and pay is more common than signing something (in the US companies have been resisting tap and pay due to higher transactional…

Still no PIN as in the UK and Europe (and maybe most of the rest of the world, though). If you steal a chip card in the USA, you can use it. Not so elsewhere.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#534

Post by woweoe »

It is broken in many countries including India and China. The issues are the duopoly over global transactions, the monopoly over the transactions, and the dominance of the US dollar in situations where other currencies would be more efficient.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#535

Post by dsr3 »

crazygringo wrote: post #328
jpollock wrote: post #105

I don't understand how this is possible: "Merchants hand over some $138bn in fees each year; according to the National Retail Federation, a lobby group, it is their second-biggest cost after wages." Unless they're talking about more than just credit card fees? From the same article: "But credit-card fees are unregulated and meatier, usually sitting at about 2% of the transaction and rising to 3.5% for some premium-re…

That jumped out at me too -- so I looked up what appears to be the source [1] and it does indeed state: > "Regardless of size, the fees are most merchants’ highest operating cost after labor" but I'm as incredulous as you are. Obviously things like cost of goods, and also usually rent, are also going to be higher. I can only assume it's based on some really misleading survey, and I'm honestly surprised to see The Eco…

I would assume that in this context, the cost of goods is not measured in the operating expense. Notice the keyword 'operating cost'. It is common to have the COGS vs OpEx separated in the financial balance sheet.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#537

Post by mellavora »

apexalpha wrote: post #470
guntab-dan wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Zelle is that it's not safe to use for anything except payments to friends and family. The Zelle user agreement [1] puts this warning in all-caps: "YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE ZELLE® SERVICE TO SEND MONEY TO PERSONS WITH WHOM YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR OR YOU DO NOT TRUST. ZELLE® DOES NOT OFFER A PROTECTION PROGRAM FOR AUTHORIZED PAYMENTS MADE WITH THE SERVICE" [1] https://www.zellepay.com/legal/user-service-ag…

I've never heard of any protection like this in the EU banking system. If you transfer money to a scammer it's simply gone. It sucks for the 0,0001% of people who get scammed some time but is it really needed that the bank takes on this role?

not sure where you get the 0.0001% figure.

The protections are part of the regulations.

A consumer can reverse a SEPA Direct Debit transaction at any time. This is called a chargeback. A chargeback is allowed up to 8 weeks after the date of the direct debit with a valid mandate and up to 13 months without a valid mandate. At most banks, the consumer does not have to give a reason for the reversal.

https://help.mollie.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000796469-How-d...

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#538

Post by [deleted] »

eek2121 wrote: post #394
AlexandrB wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also available in Canada through Interac. I'm still shocked when I go to the US and have to sign for a credit card transaction. Last time I did that in Canada was when Bush was president.

That is going away fast. The last time I signed for a credit card was...in Canada. I use a credit card literally everywhere. I do not use my bank account for anything beyond paying the card and 2 other bills. I do this for rewards, payment protection, zero transaction fees (including foreign, like those in Canada, a country in which I visit often). The credit card gets paid off once a month directly from my bank acco…

[deleted]

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#539

Post by bastardoperator »

ojagodzinski wrote: post #143
bastardoperator wrote: post #63

Can we get banks to adopt new banking platforms? Probably not...

No problem in Poland, we have Blik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik

This looks more like payment processing, I'm thinking more along the line of internal banking platforms that talk to processors like Visa, Discover, AMEX. It's almost impossible to get around the below if your bank does anything with credit cards.

    American Express IP 
    First Data Corp - FDC - FDMS - North Platform (CardNet) 
    MasterCard Internet Gateway Service - MIGS USA 
    Nova - US Bancorp 
    TSYS - VITAL (VisaNet)  
    First Data Corp - FDC - FDMS - Nashville Platform (ENVOY) 
    First Data Corp - FDC - FDMS - Omaha Platform (FDR) 
    First Data Corp - FDC - FDMS - South Platform (NaBANCO) 
    NOVUS (Discover)

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#540

Post by mellavora »

cycomanic wrote: post #103
philip1209 wrote: post #49

Fraud protection of credit cards is the root of modern e-commerce. In some ways, Visa and Mastercard are the privatized court systems of the internet. If I end up on a random, self-hosted ecommerce site and decide to make a purchase - what guarantee do I have that the item will show up or be as-described? If I bought something through a bank transfer, reversing that purchase would be incredibly difficult. And, suing…

As your post illustrates credit cards are really a solution developped for the deficiencies in the US banking system which have been exported to the rest of the world due to the dominance of the US market. 20 years when I was still living in Germany, hardly anyone had a credit card, while everyone was using automatic payments and electronic wiretransfers. I was very surprised when later (about 13 years ago) a US frie…

And Germany invented mail order. It took two things: The German post office (one of the first in the world) and the high trust within German society.
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