According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…
Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
251–260 of 470 posts
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#252Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#253Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#254Let me tell you why that was better than the current hiring meta.
1) I can learn everything I need to know in an hour with someone. 2 will likely not drastically give me a better idea. 8 hours with someone is not 8 times better, it just doesn't scale like that. So the idea that the more work you give a candidate, or the more interviews, or whatever, the better your hiring practice, it's just not true.
2) People can be very nervous in interviews. It's an intimidating, adversarial environment that has no relation at all to the job or work. It's almost the beginning of the way for the company to treat you as lesser, and they will take advantage of that to screw you these days. As you say, they will just ghost you. They didn't used to do this nearly so much. They'd at least send you a letter, or give you a call.
3) Even if 1 and 2 weren't true, the questions asked in interviews have no relationship with the real job. You just can't ramp up in time, etc. There's too much learning. Picture an intern. They do nothing except take everyone's time for the first month, but it's the rest that matters. Will they get something useful done before they leave? Maybe. But it does take a while to ramp up. So interview questions don't judge job performance.
But we still do it, because people like that tinge of power I guess. That feeling of control in that you can say yes or no to someone, they have to placate you for the job, etc. A lot of interviewers I know act very strange in interviews too, and they don't act that normally.
For the interviewee, it's even worse. You waste your time, you spend a lot of emotional energy, you don't know if you like the people you'd be working with, you don't know really what you'll work on, and no matter what you have to do what your boss says anyway, which can change at any time. Oh and it's "right-to-work" so they can fire you any time for any reason.
It's much more useful to talk to their previous boss or friends or references. Even if they are biased, you can usually tell pretty quick again who is telling you nonsense. At least then you can hear real stories about real situations in the past, rather than useless hypotheticals. But we don't do that anymore because of liability from lawsuits in hiring. Because a lot of companies are actively discriminating. Some are passively doing it, some are trying to do better but are hopeless. So everyone is just covering their ass.
Sounds like a great deal!
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#255I do a lot of interviews for my company. We do coding assignments OR let you bring some code. We just want to talk with you about code that you are very familiar with and confident to talk about. Almost everyone chooses to do the small coding assignment, because they don't have code to bring.
For personal project there will not be a TDD so coder not willing to share their existing codes. I rather showcase my skills in a new development than say already done one.
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#256According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…
The problem with tech recruiting is that each company does its own, and so job seekers repeat the process many times with different employers. There should be some kind of test that would be recognized by the industry, that you could attempt once every six months for example, and that would positively assess your ability to code. You would get a score that you could show to recruiters (if you wished to). Some recruit…
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
Finally, someone with a sensible position on this. Interviewing sucks, but the people on the other side of the table don't know you or your skillset. You have to give them some sort of objective information to work with. The position I really don't understand are those who think as a "senior" (whatever that means) engineer you should be able to walk in, answer a few questions, and then be hired just because you have…
Yeah, what's really strange is realizing that others buy into the instagram resume hype. I'll keep things anonymous to protect the guilty, but one example I know about personally is a somewhat famous Googler in a specific domain, who actually gets cited here once in awhile for his work in said domain. He used to work at a much more backwater company with a friend of mine. He was working on a project for 12 months bef…
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#258According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…
In what other professions do you need to take some practical test during an interview? Do you hear of electrical engineers that are asked to draw some circuit on a whiteboard, or to solder something?
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except they aren’t. Most working engineers don’t even bother with a PE. Think of all the marketing, sales, Human Resources jobs etc…
To me, PE means either pulmonary embolism or private equity (and I have a hard time trying to decide with one I'd rather have to deal with). Which is to say there are too many initialisms these days and I have no idea what you mean even in context, and I wish people would take the time to write out words.
Would you expect MD or CPA to be spelled out every time?
Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because nearly every other industry is credentialed, so proving your 3-8 years of university grind is enough to get hired. Nearly every other industry is credentialed and a degree is enough to get hired? I don't think that matches reality at all.
Lawyers need to have passed the bar. Accountants need their CPA. Doctors their MD. Pharmacists their Pharm.D. Finance professionals their CFA. And so on. Software engineers making 150K with only a four year degree and some leetcode have nothing to complain about. Take homes? Whiteboards? Cry me a river. Try to pass the bar or get through residency instead.