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Google’s caste-bias problem

newyorker.com

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Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#161

Post by belltaco »

themenomen wrote: post #150
flak48 wrote: post #49

From what I understood, the former Google employee being interviewed here is discussing the problem of not being allowed to discuss 'caste discrimination in India', eg. during Uttar Pradesh elections - and in companies like Cisco. They seem to focus on this blanket ban against discussing this issue at Google, as the discriminatory act - rather than alleging that actual caste discrimination is being perpetrated at Goo…

You forgot the most important statement from which is clear casteism is a rising problem: >"T.G.: There was my own obvious background. My parents immigrated from India in the early nineteen-eighties. I was certainly familiar with the topic. In September, 2021, two employees approached me. I hosted D.E.I. office hours every week where people could come in and talk about these topics, confidentially, and multiple Googl…

>reported that they had faced discrimination when trying to talk about matters of caste in the workplace

Your quote doesn't say that casteism is a rising problem. It only says some people allegedly got pushback for talking about matters of caste. It's possible they were talking about caste politics in India or whatever, and got reprimanded for bring up non-work related controversial issues.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#162

Post by thunkshift1 »

nojito wrote: post #116
40acres wrote: post #34

How would a non Indian person even tell? Is it really all in the last name? I've worked with a fair amount of Indian folks with a wide variety of names - how would you even go about determining someone's caste? Based on this article it sounds like most people who end up in Big Tech will be upper caste.

It’s done through seemingly simple questions. Usually dealing with what city they are from, what city are your parents from, are you vegetarian, are you having dessert? I've never experienced or seen the thread searching. Larger person grabs your shoulder to see if the thread is there. But that wouldn't surprise me at all.

Thats bs.. none of those questions tells you anything caste related

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#163

Post by hadlock »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #45
lotsofpulp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are describing the norm. The prime advice for everyone is networking, networking, networking, isn’t it? And it’s not what you know, but who you know. Going to the right schools to be able to make the right friends, etc.

No I'm saying a group of relatives from India methodically only hire eachother and use vicious politics to climb the ladder in american corporations. I watched it occur over a decade and still see the hiring updates on LinkedIn, "I am proud to announce we have hired XYZ from other big corp as the new head of data and governance."

This is very common/normal. My last company got eaten in a merger (acquisition) most of the senior leadership from the old company, are now at a competing company. They did not all end up there by random chance. Network network network. It's self reinforcing, because those people know who will get the job done, and make them look good doing it. It's often better to hire a known good person, rather than roll the dice on someone new.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#164

Post by [deleted] »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #103
remflight wrote: post #52

Deleted because it’s clear I won’t change anyones mind. People who want to believe that Google is guilty, will believe they are guilty no matter what.

In the extraordinary effort google does for equity and fairness, is caste bias ever addressed directly, with explanations, the same way gender/race discrimination is?

[deleted]

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#165

Post by secondcoming »

thot_experiment wrote: post #155
zo1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's abundantly clear that any discrimination against non-favored groups is ignored and in cases promoted/celebrated. Heck, I live in a country with anti-white and pro-black laws/regulations. Minorities here plainly get denied jobs due to the color of their skin and no one bats an eye. I'm all for fairness for all, no matter their race, but seeing what I've seen in person is very eye opening. I no longer have sympath…

white + male is still obviously the best build for life and it still needs more nerfs, but the devs are all playing white male and think the balance is fine

Are you saying that the Indians are acting as though they're 'White Males'?

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#166

Post by selimthegrim »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #96
pc86 wrote: post #67

We need to stop calling this a "caste-bias problem" and call it what it is: racism. Just because they're not a distinct ethnicity doesn't mean it's not racism, and the people looking down on others because of their caste are no different than the white guy yelling the n word in traffic. Neither should be tolerated, and if you find yourself working with one, they should be fired. It is antithetical to an open society.

I agree, if only for the purpose of avoiding ignorant comments like "America has a caste system too, rich vs poor" which we often find in these discussions

To be fair, (Brahmin) Communist Chief Minister of West Bengal used to say the same thing about Bengal.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#167

Post by in_cahoots »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #102
John23832 wrote: post #19

(Outside looking in perspective. I am not Indian.) When I worked as a software engineer are capital one earlier in my career, thus was a very noticeable trend. You had entire teams/groups (and to some extent geographical regions given the way the capital one workforce was split between Richmond Virginia, McLean Virginia, and NYC) where particular castes grouped together. It became particularly acute when you took int…

One company I worked at in a major US city allowed individual teams to perform their own hiring. The division I was in had employees mostly from outside the US, and the autonomy given to each team led them to form their own to ethnic enclaves. There was a team of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, etc. When I first started, I couldn't believe it. That doesn't happen merely by change, at least not that pervasively and consist…

I’ve seen this at the two FAANGs I’ve worked at as well. The company may be diverse but teams are homogeneous.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#168

Post by Aunche »

yedava wrote: post #142
Aunche wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your platform champions people's subjective experience, and Indians at Google feel that Soundararajan is discriminatory herself, then they have a right to oppose her talk without being labelled as caste bigots.

Caste discrimination is not a "subjective experience", however much your subjective experience maybe telling you so.

Like I said, their only example of caste discrimination at Google is "denial of caste discrimination" and "coded conversation", which is very much subjective. A Hindu can make the same case that "denial that caste is used as a dog whistle for Hindu discrimination" or "accusing Hindus who are opposed to a caste talk as being bigoted" as forms of Hindu discrimination.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#169

Post by kixiQu »

secondcoming wrote: post #165
thot_experiment wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

white + male is still obviously the best build for life and it still needs more nerfs, but the devs are all playing white male and think the balance is fine

Are you saying that the Indians are acting as though they're 'White Males'?

Parent comment said:

> I no longer have sympathy for DEI and other such initiatives because they will always be targeted against white people and males, no matter the state of equity/fairness in the world.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#170

Post by jquery »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #83
bko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't being blind to caste distinctions the optimal way to avoid discrimination? It's like a blind audition.

Somehow in $current_year, blind auditions are also racist: https://web.archive.org/web/20220725001219/https://www.nytim...

The article does not make such a claim.
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