Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

geek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 89 posts

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#61

Post by tesseract »

sneak wrote: post #26

Why don't thes people release their files as they work on them? Why don't they resell the bare SoCs at cost or a slight markup so we can use them for other projects? Something has always struck me as fishy about this whole thing.

You couldn't build one yourself anyway, because Broadcom won't sell you parts or even talk to you unless you're doing volumes like 100k/quarter. And then you'll probably need to sign an NDA to get the datasheet.

I see the Raspberry Pi project as an attempt by Broadcom to build some goodwill - but they seem more interested in doing so among society at large by producing a super-affordable computer for kids, than among nerds by doing an open source project. That's Broadcom's prerogative and I applaud what they are doing for what it is.

Personally though, as a hardware hacker, I am more likely to buy similar products using TI (BeagleBoard) or Freescale (Chumby Hacker Board) or Atmel parts, as those manufacturers have histories of being a bit more friendly to hackers, hobbyists, and small volume buyers. The BeagleBoard in particular is open source, there's development chatter on an open mailing list, and TI sells the same OMAP SoCs to small volume customers (right down to the possibility of a hobbyist buying one or two through a distributor, although at that volume you'll pay $50 for just the bare SoC).

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#62

Post by digikata »

easp wrote: post #57
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #2

Cool. Portable. Cheap. Can run Quake II. But what does that get you? Still need to plug into a monitor, keyboard, mouse. So you can only use it where those things are. For real portability, how about an SD system thumb drive I can plug into any computer, and it boots as my computer. That would be portable. Useful for a student lab, at my Mom's house, in a hotel. Just a thought.

You seem to have fixated on the portability. Understandable, but I don't think that is the point. The point is to build a cheap but capable device that kids can hack on. The portability is a byproduct of that focus on cost: the fewer parts, the smaller the PCB, the cheaper it can be. Keyboards and mice are pretty cheap these days. Monitors, not as much, but this can work with TVs, which are surprisingly common, even…

If an aspect of this is hackability, I'm wondering if a schematic or a datasheet for the CPU will be released. Under "schematic", in the wiki right now I see a pcb "gerber" layout, and Broadcom isn't one of the more open companies with datasheets. But, I figure they're in a pre-shipping crunch right now, so we'll all wait and see...

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#63

Post by polshaw »

DanBC wrote: post #17

I'm really excited by this project. I think it's a great idea. I very much hope they sell them to anyone, maybe at a slightly higher price to subsidise the others. But there's a tiny [1] hint of regret that modern programming is necessarily abstracted away from the hardware. When people were using the popular home computers of the 1980s they would be able to use some version of BASIC, and then also some machine code…

They are selling them to anyone, these are not another OLPC.

As for programming abstraction; that is a ship that sailed long ago!

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#64

Post by polshaw »

tesseract wrote: post #61
sneak wrote: post #26

Why don't thes people release their files as they work on them? Why don't they resell the bare SoCs at cost or a slight markup so we can use them for other projects? Something has always struck me as fishy about this whole thing.

You couldn't build one yourself anyway, because Broadcom won't sell you parts or even talk to you unless you're doing volumes like 100k/quarter. And then you'll probably need to sign an NDA to get the datasheet. I see the Raspberry Pi project as an attempt by Broadcom to build some goodwill - but they seem more interested in doing so among society at large by producing a super-affordable computer for kids, than among…

Rasberry Pi is not a project run by broadcom, just using their SoC (and featuring one of their employees). They are selling the first round to nerds / hardware hackers, and I doubt many others will choose to pay 4x the price to keep using the beagleboard.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#65

Post by polshaw »

rosstafarian wrote: post #39
r00fus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difference is the iPhone has insane margins. You want to pay $35 or $100?

$100? heh the 16gb 4s is $200(+fees, tax, etc.) because its subsidized with a 2 year contract. I think it's something like $650 if you buy it unlocked. compared to a $25 - $35 computer? Apples and oranges ;)

I believe they were implying the R Pi may have cost $100 with a more compact board.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#66

Post by [deleted] »

easp wrote: post #59
DanBC wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's often not true; PCBs can be a significant cost on the bill of materials for a gadget. Amortising the tooling / artwork costs into big volumes helps, but even then the PCB is usually one of the more expensive items on the parts list.

Yup, it was interesting reading some of the discussions about the design of the device. PCB cost was a major consideration. They aren't exposing some of the I/O pins on the SoC because it would require a more expensive PCB to do so.

[deleted]

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#67

Post by polshaw »

ctdonath wrote: post #13

What's their initial production run going to look like? There's a whole lotta geeks who will want this - and at that price, they'll want 10. ($250 for more computers than I'll know what to do with? I'll take 20!)

They spoke of 10k initial run.[1] They have also been considering limiting purchases per person.

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cmxoSmOxU

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#68

Post by donnawarellp »

It seems like every couple of weeks for the last year and a half something about this thing gets posted, but still you can not order it.

Can you say vapor ware? I predict the Raspberry PI board will never ship, it will forever be hyped. They should just call it Raspberry Hype.

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#69

Post by burgerbrain »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #53
vidarh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever you answer, the cost dwarfs the device, and swamps its processing power. Linux costs 0, and runs on far less capable devices than the RaspberryPi.

So, Photoshop for linux? Mac dev tools? What apps?

You do realize that with the exception of one or two of the IDEs, the "mac dev tools" run or originated on Linux or other similarly now free systems, right?

Re: Raspberry Pi reveals the final PCB design for the $25 PC

#70

Post by nitrogen »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #5
eugenejen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to use them as cheap embedded systems that without KVM.

Right, that's the primary use in my mind. Not gonna be much use to a primary school student.

I bought my first PC when I was eight (at a very discounted price from my parents). I already knew how to do trivial graphics programs in Logo. I had a "100 in one" electronics kit as well, but didn't have anyone to teach me how to read schematics. So, I got the example circuits running by following the numbered wiring sequences printed below the schematic. I learned how to use DOS before that by watching the output of my parents' first computer as it ran through AUTOEXEC.BAT (I was insanely excited when I typed "prompt SpSg" into a command line and the computer actually did something -- later on I figured out that the S should have been a $). By the time I was 13 I was buying scrap computer parts, assembling working computers, and selling them. Don't underestimate the potential of children.
Post reply on HN