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Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#181

Post by ahtihn »

vorpalhex wrote: post #142
thedailymail wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be confusing burglary with robbery.

> Burglary is a crime under both the common law and the model penal code. Exact definitions of burglary under the common law vary by jurisdiction though they all criminalize some form of illegally entering a building at night with the intent to commit a crime within. From https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/burglary Typically this means you've broken into a domicile (sometimes lesser charges of Burglary exist for non-dom…

> If you break into someone's home, at night, while it's occupied, the law presumes you intended to do violence.

Well yes. But I explicitly said "no one's present". And it usually happens during the day where I live, because that's when people work.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#182

Post by MomoXenosaga »

trhway wrote: post #83
CamperBob2 wrote: post #18

Wow, not hard to see how the next 9/11 will happen. The staff at the charter jet terminal were almost criminally clueless. "So, how exactly does the security work around here, anyway? Is this huge crate going to be X-rayed? Because it needs to not be X-rayed. Also, here's a $10,000 tip, just to make sure you, um, don't remember us."

Laws, including custom checks, passport checks, etc. are for regular people. There was even a recent program on NPR how different is the life of super-wealthy. And while super-wealthy is a totally different game, even upper middle class money already distort the reality in a much more comfortable way. I'm watching a case in Santa Clara of an NVIDIA director, a Russian immigrant, who 2 years ago being drunk and speedi…

Well there is a reason why people try so hard to get rich! If it didn't give you privileges nobody would bother. As a child I will always remember OJ Simpson and his TEAM of lawyers.

For some reason our society needs to believe in "justice is blind" lmao.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#183

Post by MomoXenosaga »

prvit wrote: post #145
trhway wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of due process you get depends on your money, and that is bad. In particular people rot in jail for months and years on much smaller bails until they just take the plea deal. And about passport checks I repeated the NPR as I have no first hand experience with private jet :)

Problem isn’t that rich people have it better, the problem is that poor people have it much worse.

We should have "public service" for lawyers. Every defence attorney needs to 2 months of every year defending poor people.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#184

Post by EdwardDiego »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #180
SenHeng wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also largely fuelled by the negative experiences many foreigners, resident or tourist, have had with the Japanese police. O: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/j4ccy4/how_being... 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/tcxseo/arrested_...

Quoted post unavailable.

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#185

Post by aaron695 »

hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

No post body was provided.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#186

Post by throwaway654329 »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #108
orf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s ridiculous. A crime is a crime, and stealing money - be it physically or on paper - has real repercussions to real people. It deserves more than a financial penalty.

>A crime is a crime This is most certainly false. A crime is a violation of a law. Laws are passed by groups of people, not handed down by some infinitely wise and just being. For example, in many African nations, it is illegal to be gay. Would someone imprisoned for the "crime" of being gay be justified in escaping? Would Julian Assange be justified in escaping his dungeon for exposing the crimes of the US governmen…

This is one reason why political crimes are treated with different considerations under international treaties and in the day to day norms of states. The right to asylum, for example, in one country to avoid prosecution in another country exists, and it is regularly exercised.

America regularly support people who are charged with normal crimes that have obvious political undertones, as they should. This is an unmitigated good.

Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Guangcheng

Other popular examples exist. These cases are also often very polarizing for the people of the country who is claimed to have been the victim of some political crime.

Note the definition of political crime ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/political%20crime ) exactly makes the link: “political offenses … exclude any possibility of extradition.”

What makes up a political crime? By definition it can be subjective but some entire categories are usually included.

On the one hand, Assange is considered by many to be a journalist doing journalistic things, while others argue he committed espionage doing political things as some kind of spy. Prosecution for either is usually considered a political persecution worthy of asylum.

Ecuador granted Assange political asylum because of the U.S. investigation into Assange for his publications that were in the public interest.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#187

Post by BonoboIO »

SenHeng wrote: post #173
hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

It’s also largely fuelled by the negative experiences many foreigners, resident or tourist, have had with the Japanese police. O: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/j4ccy4/how_being... 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/tcxseo/arrested_...

I tend to believe Ghosn here. He is definitely not a saint, but I don’t think he would have gotten a fair trial.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#188

Post by josefx »

vorpalhex wrote: post #96
wpietri wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Nah. Financial crimes cause real harm. And financial penalties frequently aren't sufficient disincentive. Imagine that I have no assets but am a good talker. So I go out an launch an "investment fund" that is just a Ponzi scheme. Let's suppose I take in $50m, pocket $10m, and spend the rest on "investment returns" and appearing to run a real business. I live high on the…

Being raped, assaulted or having a family member murdered is worse than losing money. Money can be repaid. You can't be unraped.

Money often represents opportunity, sometimes its lack can cause significant distress. Say you want to go on vacation but find that all your bank accounts are in the red, you are not going to make that vacation, instead you are probably going to spend significant amounts of time trying to fix the resulting issues. Someone dropping by years later with a few million in hand isn't going to give you those years of your life back.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#189

Post by josefx »

vorpalhex wrote: post #142
thedailymail wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be confusing burglary with robbery.

> Burglary is a crime under both the common law and the model penal code. Exact definitions of burglary under the common law vary by jurisdiction though they all criminalize some form of illegally entering a building at night with the intent to commit a crime within. From https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/burglary Typically this means you've broken into a domicile (sometimes lesser charges of Burglary exist for non-dom…

This https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/459/ says that just entering a building with the intent to commit a crime counts as burglary even if no force was required.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#190

Post by Dracophoenix »

kergonath wrote: post #88
codedokode wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at which point many too-trusting people have lost their lifes' savings People should be a little smarter and not fall for Ponzi schemes. Furthermore, many people who invest in such schemes, understand how they work but hope to get profit before it collapses.

> People should be a little smarter and not fall for Ponzi schemes Blaming the victims is not a solution. This logic can be applied to justify stopping punishing any crime (“well, they should have stayed at home if they did not want to get mugged”, “they should know better than leave their house for the week if they did not want to get burglarised”, etc).

The victim-perpetrator binary is a false dilemma. Courts recognize contributory negligence in car accidents, why shouldn't they recognize them for self-inflicted financial harms in which one was aware or should have been aware of the risks?
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