The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#51

Post by Siddarth1977 » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 11:45 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #49

rayiner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m talking about keeping Asians in the fold long term, in a party where the folks who think the SATs are racist and what to defund the police and think corporate boards should have quotas are, even if not yet dominant, ascendant. College educated Asians aren’t similarly situated to college educated whites. Progressivism gives white democrats a vehicle for using institutions to advance their cultural values. Asians m…

You keep making the same mistake. The party doesn't think the SATs are racist. Weirdos on Twitter and in elite college administrations do. The party opposes defunding the police. They're not ascendant; they're laughingstocks. If you confine your analysis to "progressives", I'll shut up about it. I somewhat agree with you. But when you drag the Democratic party in it, or, even less plausibly, Biden, I'm going to objec…

You're grossly underestimating the power of "progressives" within the overall governmental and administrative structure.

Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you're attributing to "weirdos" on twitter and in academia.

You're not going to see Biden give a speech where he says "Give minorities preferential access to covid treatments to compensate for systemic racism against them" but some committee of people appointed by his office will write the rules as such. So does it matter that Biden publicly claims moderate, centrist positions if all his appointments and policymakers put racial progressivism as their top priority?

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#52

Post by tptacek » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 11:52 PM UTC

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #51

tptacek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep making the same mistake. The party doesn't think the SATs are racist. Weirdos on Twitter and in elite college administrations do. The party opposes defunding the police. They're not ascendant; they're laughingstocks. If you confine your analysis to "progressives", I'll shut up about it. I somewhat agree with you. But when you drag the Democratic party in it, or, even less plausibly, Biden, I'm going to objec…

You're grossly underestimating the power of "progressives" within the overall governmental and administrative structure. Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you'…

This is a just-so story, presented without evidence. No matter who gets elected --- even a Republican! --- you could claim that a shadowy web of deep-state progressives were undermining the rulemaking process. I made a specific claim: that progressives get roflstomped in Democratic primary elections. A fantasy football debate about the Democratic party that exists in our respective minds might be fun, but it won't get us anywhere, so I elect not to participate.

Upthread, I pointed out that in contrast to the Democratic party, the fringiest, least-defensible elements of the Republican party control the party. That's true! But it's also a dumb argument, and not one I'd want to have to make outside of zinging Rayiner for pretending Biden is a defunder. Just because a bunch of batshit crazy people run the Republican party (or a bunch of out-and-proud racist authoritarians with the Libertarian party) doesn't mean you can't reasonably be a member of either party; in fact, supporting those parties are the only way they'll change.

So the whole thing is pretty dumb, and we'd be better of discussing the ideological movements themselves (progressivism, America-first nationalism, or, in the case of the Libertarian party, fascism) than the parties.

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#53

Post by rayiner » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 11:53 PM UTC

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #6

ralusek wrote: post #4

There is almost nothing that bothers me more than the control of information. At least with this issue, however, the reasoning as to why data is being manipulated is so abundantly clear that there is actually virtually no loss of information for the time being. The reality is that Asians largely constitute a problem for the prevailing narrative around racial and ethnic power dynamics. Indians, for example, despite be…

It feels a bit wrong to frame many things from the point of view of ethnicity, although that definitely has it's place too. If you look at these groups, you should see that many immigrants from Asia were already well off enough to immigrate, so in some sense mid-to-upper class of their societies. This is not by far the case for native Americans and African Americans, who have been oppressed for generations in America…

Many Asians aren’t well off. In 1989, Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians had similar to higher poverty rates than African Americans, because they came here as refugees: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1990/.... For Cambodians it was dramatically higher. Today, Vietnamese and Laotians have lower poverty rates than the national average, and Cambodians are only modestly higher.

I’m Bangladeshi, and we are about 20 years behind in that curve. Still higher poverty rates than average (90% immigrated after 2000), but moving rapidly toward parity. Also, being upper class in “old country” doesn’t mean coming here with money. My family was upper class in Bangladesh. But a Bangladeshi college degree is worthless here. My dad came here with a job from a US company, but we were the exception. Most of my aunts and uncles work retail and service jobs.

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#54

Post by rayiner » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 12:08 AM UTC

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #51

tptacek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep making the same mistake. The party doesn't think the SATs are racist. Weirdos on Twitter and in elite college administrations do. The party opposes defunding the police. They're not ascendant; they're laughingstocks. If you confine your analysis to "progressives", I'll shut up about it. I somewhat agree with you. But when you drag the Democratic party in it, or, even less plausibly, Biden, I'm going to objec…

You're grossly underestimating the power of "progressives" within the overall governmental and administrative structure. Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you'…

> Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you're attributing to "weirdos" on twitter and in academia.

Also, Democratic donors. For non-white professionals, addressing “how you add diversity” is now part of daily professional life. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/litigation/committees/div...

Apart from being rather demeaning, it’s farcical. You have to be all “I’m a proud Bangladeshi!” But also there’s an unstated “but don’t worry, I’m extremely white washed in the ways you care about.”

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#55

Post by tptacek » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 12:38 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #54

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're grossly underestimating the power of "progressives" within the overall governmental and administrative structure. Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you'…

> Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you're attributing to "weirdos" on twitter and in academia. Also, Democratic donors. For non-white professionals, addressin…

Addressing "how do you add diversity" was part of your own set of operating principles until quite recently. Have you changed your mind about all this now?

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#56

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 12:50 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #55

rayiner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you're attributing to "weirdos" on twitter and in academia. Also, Democratic donors. For non-white professionals, addressin…

Addressing "how do you add diversity" was part of your own set of operating principles until quite recently. Have you changed your mind about all this now? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

[deleted]

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#57

Post by rayiner » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 12:52 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #55

rayiner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you're attributing to "weirdos" on twitter and in academia. Also, Democratic donors. For non-white professionals, addressin…

Addressing "how do you add diversity" was part of your own set of operating principles until quite recently. Have you changed your mind about all this now? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

I thought we would just hire more Black people, not create this absurd caste system of “diverse people” and associated purifying rituals. Also, if I’m being perfectly honest, that was before I was on the receiving end. I wasn’t the one having to attest to about my diversity a decade ago. Nobody was trying to teach my kids oppression narratives, or cultivate their non-white identity. Mea culpa.

I still support it for women because, get this, I think men and women are different in significant and meaningful ways.

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#58

Post by honkkong420 » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 1:01 AM UTC

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #23

illuminerdy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "For one, it has been well established that the "racial" group that is overrepresented in violence against Asians is not "white" people." Its a typical tactic of the media and the globalist. Find a problem, but instead of dealing with the real cause, find some way to turn it towards attacking the desired group. They did it with "black lives matter" except its summertime and every weekend for a decade you could find…

I think the point of BLM was to draw attention to the police violence against black people.

No post body was provided.

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#59

Post by honkkong420 » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 1:03 AM UTC

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #6

ralusek wrote: post #4

There is almost nothing that bothers me more than the control of information. At least with this issue, however, the reasoning as to why data is being manipulated is so abundantly clear that there is actually virtually no loss of information for the time being. The reality is that Asians largely constitute a problem for the prevailing narrative around racial and ethnic power dynamics. Indians, for example, despite be…

It feels a bit wrong to frame many things from the point of view of ethnicity, although that definitely has it's place too. If you look at these groups, you should see that many immigrants from Asia were already well off enough to immigrate, so in some sense mid-to-upper class of their societies. This is not by far the case for native Americans and African Americans, who have been oppressed for generations in America…

No post body was provided.

Re: The government is burying the anti-Asian violent hate crime crisis

#60

Post by rayiner » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 1:59 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #52

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're grossly underestimating the power of "progressives" within the overall governmental and administrative structure. Sure, to win in 2020 the Democrats had to go with a more pragmatic candidate. But behind the scenes, the legion of government employees, aides, administrators, lobbyists, and bureaucrats are implementing policies and interpreting rules with more or less the exact set of values and beliefs that you'…

This is a just-so story, presented without evidence. No matter who gets elected --- even a Republican! --- you could claim that a shadowy web of deep-state progressives were undermining the rulemaking process. I made a specific claim: that progressives get roflstomped in Democratic primary elections. A fantasy football debate about the Democratic party that exists in our respective minds might be fun, but it won't ge…

> Upthread, I pointed out that in contrast to the Democratic party, the fringiest, least-defensible elements of the Republican party control the party.

While Republican voters are definitely nuttier than democratic voters, the intellectual institutions of the broader right are saner than those of the left. I don’t have to deal with this at Fed Soc meetings: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/northwestern-univers...

And what threat do they pose to Asians anyway? The people saying “there’s too many Asians in tech” are mostly on the left, not the right. And the ones with the power to do anything about it are almost all on the left. There’s a lot worse that can happen to Asians in this country than being called names, and most of those threats are coming from progressives. And, frankly, whatever MTG says about Muslim immigrants, my mom has said worse about white southerners with GEDs. That stuff isn’t a political issue with a political solution.

And what happens if MTG becomes President? My kids will have to say the pledge of allegiance three times a day? Great! That’s far less scary to me than some progressive trying to teach my kid to build their “AAPI identity” around shit that happened to Chinese people 150 years ago: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/schools-are-start.... Asians believe that the way you view the world, and the attitudes you have, matters for your success. Progressive education is terrifying in this respect.