Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#91

Post by yomkippur » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:09 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #89

yomkippur wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he is also wanted in France for similar embezzlement, I don't understand why so many expats and people who never been in Japan are suddenly defending a grifter.

Not convicted yet, and apparently he does want to be tried just in France and not in Japan. A lot of the accusations are for standard rich people crimes which is some amount of tax avoidance. You can basically pick and choose who you want to target because as panama papers shows pretty much all rich people are dodging taxes to some degree.

Except he wasn't evading taxes, he was paying himself extra money that he deemed was justified but was not approved or made aware to the company. I don't know why people are defending Ghosn, I suspect with all that money, he was able to hire an internet marketing company to flood the comment section like they did on Reddit.

Still doesn't change the fact that Interpol has a red notice for Ghosn.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#92

Post by Cupertino95014 » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #78

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if the people Kamala Harris prosecuted got less than 9 years, that's OK? "only a few dozen people were sent to state prison for marijuana convictions under Harris’ tenure." https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/11/kamala-harris-prosecu...

Just bottomless wells of bad faith arguments. It's incredible.

We were talking about marijuana prosecutions in the US vs. Russia. How is it "bad faith" to mention prosecutions in San Francisco?

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#93

Post by Scoundreller » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

collegeburner wrote: post #21

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> his concerns about the japanese justice system arent all wrong. so not that simple Conveniently, he cannot stand trial in France, which has also called for his arrest based on their own investigations, because he chose to become an international fugitive in Lebanon [1]. That said, I believe there has been prosecutorial interest around Anthony Ghosn--Carlos's son living in, to my last recollection, California--due t…

ofc he can't stand trial in france bc they will extradite him to japan instead. he got the assange problem.

More likely they would hand him to France. Lebanon gets a lot more out of France than Japan.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#94

Post by vorpalhex » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:11 PM UTC

ahtihn wrote: post #87

codedokode wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial crimes are not violent and therefore should be punished lightly.

That makes no sense. A home burglary where no one's present is non violent. Do you think that should be punished lightly? It causes orders of magnitude less damage than a lot of financial crime.

Burglary carries a presumption of force.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#95

Post by throwoutway » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

iforgotpassword wrote: post #63

SiempreViernes wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evading a punishment is pretty universally seen as a crime, not sure why you'd think otherwise.

Because it's a natural instinct to seek freedom. It's in human nature. Like, expecting a prisoner to keep sitting in their cell when suddenly all doors spring open is ridiculous.

Sure it’s a natural instinct, but society as a whole views it as ethically, morally, and legally “wrong”. We don’t allow individual’s selfish motives to rule society in other areas.

Either way, the person I was responding to did not say it was a natural desire, they only said it was “not wrong”.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#96

Post by vorpalhex » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #52

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Nah. Financial crimes cause real harm. And financial penalties frequently aren't sufficient disincentive. Imagine that I have no assets but am a good talker. So I go out an launch an "investment fund" that is just a Ponzi scheme. Let's suppose I take in $50m, pocket $10m, and spend the rest on "investment returns" and appearing to run a real business. I live high on the…

Being raped, assaulted or having a family member murdered is worse than losing money.

Money can be repaid. You can't be unraped.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#97

Post by kergonath » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

KerrAvon wrote: post #6

yomkippur wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

it’s really not that clear cut, though

Come on! The guy is wanted in 13 countries for (amongst others) tax evasion, corruption, embezzlement, fraud, and forgery.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#98

Post by ETH_start » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

maybelsyrup wrote: post #28

theflyingelvis wrote: post #15

Props to Ghosn. Stuck it to the man.

Ghosn IS "the man". People who stick it to the man don't have access to Green Berets and private jets and multiple citizenships. This story can be understood as bickering between two factions or groups of "the man": on the one side the Japanese legal system, hardly a champion of the underdog; and on the other, one of the world's richest and most powerful people, the sort of person who does not (cannot) arrive at his…

>>one of the world's richest and most powerful people, the sort of person who does not (cannot) arrive at his station in life without being a special type of ruthless sociopath

Many people who become extraordinarily successful owe their success to their integrity and competence, not to ruthlessness or sociopathy.

This is especially true in advanced economies which became advanced largely because of somewhat meritocatic hierarchies that do a decent job of incentivizing and rewarding socially beneficial behavior.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#99

Post by pfisherman » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #18

Wow, not hard to see how the next 9/11 will happen. The staff at the charter jet terminal were almost criminally clueless. "So, how exactly does the security work around here, anyway? Is this huge crate going to be X-rayed? Because it needs to not be X-rayed. Also, here's a $10,000 tip, just to make sure you, um, don't remember us."

It’s possible that the operatives knew something about Japanese customs and etiquette and the $10,000 tip was intended to distract the employees at the airport.

If they are worried about navigating a delicate social situation - rejecting the money without offense / loss of face - then they aren’t thinking about the boxes or the flimsy cover story.

The article said that this scenario - rejecting tips from uninformed foreigners - was not uncommon; but that the amount involved and what that amount implied about the potential of a future business relationship made the situation more delicate.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#100

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Sun, Aug 07, 2022, 9:17 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #94

ahtihn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. A home burglary where no one's present is non violent. Do you think that should be punished lightly? It causes orders of magnitude less damage than a lot of financial crime.

Burglary carries a presumption of force.

People steal packages off doorsteps all the time. It requires no force.