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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#261

Post by lelanthran »

belltaco wrote: post #260
lelanthran wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your driver's license being photo copied is one of the first steps in buying a car at a dealership. Before you request a quote? I was suggesting getting the quote before buying.

It's for the test drive so you don't run off without traceability with the car.

> It's for the test drive so you don't run off without traceability with the car.

Doesn't the test drive come *after* you ask "How much?"?

Honestly I am surprised at the attitude that merely showing up at the dealer means that you locked into a purchase, and you can't find out the price until after halfway through the purchase.

In my country (not the US) it is normal to negotiate price before even looking at the car (for new cars, anyway).

Whatever quote they give you is then locked in, they can't change their mind when you change your address details.

Not that we don't get screwed, we do, but that's due to a different cause.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#262

Post by atestu »

Spooky23 wrote: post #151
atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

Have you ever purchased a car before? If you think that the process of buying a car at retail is the market working efficiently, your expectations are incredibly low.

I have, a used one, on Carvana.

I don't think the process of buying a new car is efficient at all. And I'm not defending the dealership system either. I'm just saying they're acting rationally, and that the markups don't shock me.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#263

Post by atestu »

dagw wrote: post #95
atestu wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just buy a used car?

The used car market is experiencing exactly same markups and 'price gouging' as the new car market.

I recently bought a used car, and while the prices are up, I didn't see any 10K markups or price gouging. It's still a much more sensible choice to buy a used car.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#264

Post by n4r9 »

ReptileMan wrote: post #254
n4r9 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing against the dynamics of the current economic system. I'm challenging whether "that's business after all" is a sound ethical defense of a decision to raise new car prices in this climate. You could just as easily claim that industry consolidation is "rational" because it the people making the deals make a lot of money, but the overall effect is often bad for society.

And this one is not because there are enough cars in the US and even if currently no new are produced - existing are rarely decommissioned because they no longer work. Very few people need new car now. Or need to change their car now. It is a flexible market. In the current market supply shortage means that you will have to squeeze 50000 more miles out of your current car in the next two years. It's not insulin or ba…

A ~30% spike in used car prices which has been ongoing for a year and is predicted to continue for 2-3 years is bad for people that need a car to commute and can't easily afford to buy another if and when theirs breaks down.

Maybe you're right and this is a fraction of a percentage of the population. I'd be surprised but am open to seeing stats on it.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#265

Post by WalterBright »

AinderS wrote: post #80
WalterBright wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you go. You couldn't reach agreement so no deal. Nobody was forced into anything.

Don't pretend this is a victimless crime. He was tricked into wasting his time due to false advertising, and honest dealers who advertise the full price lose customers to fraudsters.

Crime? Come on.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#266

Post by sokoloff »

rdtwo wrote: post #169
sokoloff wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start with “I have 60 minutes to conclude this deal [90 if for some reason you need to test drive it]” and start packing up your things at the 55 minute mark. If you spend 3 hours at a dealer after you’ve identified a single car you’re interested in , part of that is on you. Yes, I’ve walked out twice. One dealer rescued the deal; the other lost the sale to a dealer about 20 miles away.

Doesn’t work when someone else will happily buy it

Someone else will always buy any new car. They are not nearly so likely to buy it from that specific salesperson and so that salesperson's commission is still very much at risk, even if the dealership is at zero risk of being stuck with the car.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#267

Post by nradov »

_fat_santa wrote: post #179
bradfa wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is leading the way today (somewhat painfully in some areas) but they're not the first to try fixing this. GM's Saturn tried to make buying simpler in the 1990s and surely there were other previous examples, too. Ford seems to be testing the waters about how to simplify the car purchase process: https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-dealers-will-likely-s... There's plenty of dealerships who have historically ha…

Ford Corporate is livid with their dealers. Back in 2018 when they put out the Focus RS, dealers basically killed that car with markups. Dealers all marked them up 20-30k which put them around 70-80k OTD. While some bought it at that price, they all just languished on the lot and Ford eventually cancelled due to sluggish sales. An almost similar thing happened to the F150 Lightning, Ford had to threaten dealers that…

If Ford had really wanted the Focus RS to succeed they would have just built more cars. Dealer markups only happen on models in short supply. There just aren't many customers willing to pay even $40K for a small Ford hatchback, even though it had good performance specs.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#268

Post by nradov »

ReptileMan wrote: post #254
n4r9 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing against the dynamics of the current economic system. I'm challenging whether "that's business after all" is a sound ethical defense of a decision to raise new car prices in this climate. You could just as easily claim that industry consolidation is "rational" because it the people making the deals make a lot of money, but the overall effect is often bad for society.

And this one is not because there are enough cars in the US and even if currently no new are produced - existing are rarely decommissioned because they no longer work. Very few people need new car now. Or need to change their car now. It is a flexible market. In the current market supply shortage means that you will have to squeeze 50000 more miles out of your current car in the next two years. It's not insulin or ba…

That's just wrong. About 5% of cars are scrapped every year. Many people need to buy a replacement vehicle on short notice because their old car suffers a catastrophic mechanical failure, or is totalled in a collision.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#269

Post by smeej »

ghaff wrote: post #222
smeej wrote: post #117

It's not just the new cars. On Saturday, my friend traded in his 2017 GMC Canyon with 86k miles on it for $19k. He had paid $25k for it new in 2017. The dealership now has it listed for used sale for $28,995. If they're turning a $10k profit on a 5yo car driven pretty hard for 5 years and selling it above what it cost when it was new, I have no doubt they're marking up the new ones even higher!

Yeah, the one silver lining of the crunch. When I just bought a new car, I traded in a 2011 Toyota 4Runner with 75K miles and a caved in rear hatch and some non-obvious mechanical problems. Got $15K for it. Was really shocked. Sort of made up for the fact that I pretty much paid sticker plus a couple add-ons.

The same dealership as bought my friend's truck above is offering me over $4k for my 2007 Prius with 208k miles on it.

Sure, I expect I could get that private-party. But on trade-in??

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#270

Post by SergeAx »

jeromegv wrote: post #121
atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

The concern is not that. Yes increase price if demand is high and supply is low. However, they play those games where they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees when you show up to purchase. So it makes shopping around very hard, you can’t compare between 2 dealerships as even calling them won’t give you that info. It’s predatory and anti consumer.

> they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees

Isn't that illegal? They are advertising for non-existent product.

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