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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#251

Post by n4r9 »

hellojesus wrote: post #229
n4r9 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that, in this case, chip shortages and a supply-chain crisis mean that supply won't increase.

Then the market is acting rationally and allocating limited goods to the highest bidder. Prices would go down if the population stopped purchasing at the given prices. But all it takes is one person to buy at a price just above yours to keep you out of the market.

I'm not arguing against the dynamics of the current economic system. I'm challenging whether "that's business after all" is a sound ethical defense of a decision to raise new car prices in this climate.

You could just as easily claim that industry consolidation is "rational" because it the people making the deals make a lot of money, but the overall effect is often bad for society.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#252

Post by olyjohn »

sleepdreamy wrote: post #176
mox1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you still bought the car!!! That's the entire point of these crappy business practices. At the end of the day, you paid. Thus they continue doing the same thing. If you really wanted this to change, don't reward the bad business practices. (Side note: This is a common topic on reddit /askcarsales. Honest dealers are basically forced to do some of these things. The shady dealers advertise lower prices, but lots of…

If you need the car, you need the car. I sure did

Usually, I would say buy a used car then... but right now, used cars are ridiculously priced too! The used car dealerships are making money hand over fist too, and some people are out there paying ridiculous prices for old cars, probably because of the wait times on new cars. And you know the dealers are lowballing the fuck out of people who don't know any better, and asking stupid prices.

It also doesn't help that every manufacturer has basically stopped selling their low-end small cars. No more Honda Fit. No more Ford Fiesta or Focus.

The thing is, I don't think that most people buying cars right now even 'need' them. So people like you who do need one are also getting screwed by that.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#253

Post by ryantgtg »

The /r/electricvehicles subreddit has a similar tracker https://datastudio.google.com/reporting/7a243d54-2a8d-44f3-a...

It's cool, but not has some usability issues (most recent update for a dealership is not always what dictates the color of the marker on the map).

Anyway, crappy dealer experiences are a huge reason why so many people purchase Teslas, and why OEMs like Volvo are creating new brands that they can sell direct.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#254

Post by ReptileMan »

n4r9 wrote: post #251
hellojesus wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the market is acting rationally and allocating limited goods to the highest bidder. Prices would go down if the population stopped purchasing at the given prices. But all it takes is one person to buy at a price just above yours to keep you out of the market.

I'm not arguing against the dynamics of the current economic system. I'm challenging whether "that's business after all" is a sound ethical defense of a decision to raise new car prices in this climate. You could just as easily claim that industry consolidation is "rational" because it the people making the deals make a lot of money, but the overall effect is often bad for society.

And this one is not because there are enough cars in the US and even if currently no new are produced - existing are rarely decommissioned because they no longer work.

Very few people need new car now. Or need to change their car now. It is a flexible market. In the current market supply shortage means that you will have to squeeze 50000 more miles out of your current car in the next two years. It's not insulin or baby formula.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#255

Post by ghaff »

zucked wrote: post #249
ghaff wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Resort fees" are a thing but in my experience you don't see them a lot outside of what are plausibly actual resorts, i.e. typical hotel chains don't usually have them. Of course, there are always lots of taxes that get tacked on. Especially pre-pandemic, I booked lots of hotels. (AirBnB also has cleaning fees etc. although what little I've used AirBnB they seem to be pretty prominently displayed.)

Vegas loves these - the last time I stayed on the strip it was $40+/day "resort amenity" fee that they did a great job of hiding throughout the booking and checkin process.

Yeah, Vegas is a particular offender. You can end up paying almost as much in resort fees as you would for a discount casino hotel room itself.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#256

Post by avidiax »

BigRedDog1669 wrote: post #241
ghaff wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Resort fees" are a thing but in my experience you don't see them a lot outside of what are plausibly actual resorts, i.e. typical hotel chains don't usually have them. Of course, there are always lots of taxes that get tacked on. Especially pre-pandemic, I booked lots of hotels. (AirBnB also has cleaning fees etc. although what little I've used AirBnB they seem to be pretty prominently displayed.)

On Airbnb there is one price displayed on the map (the daily rate), then when you click on a place, the fees are added and the price changes. But that still doesn't include tax and local fees which add more to the price when you go to confirm. So what you see on the map is quite less than the final price. I believe there are laws in some locations that make Airbnb show the price upfront on the map and they do for tho…

This is called "drip pricing" and is actively targeted by the EU, UK and Australia.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#257

Post by paranoidrobot »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #132
paranoidrobot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the objection is that dealers don't make it clear what they're actually selling the thing for. I've heard of plenty of cases (so yeah, anecdata) where a dealer might advertise the car at MSRP, but it's not until you get in there, and actually try to buy it that they reveal they won't actually sell it for MSRP - there's "market adjustments", and mandatory addons and other things.

Price obfuscation and outright lies are of course, unacceptable. I think the general advice for years though, has been to email dealerships asking for final price and using Costco as the benchmark for who to waste time with or not. Although, the supply demand situation may have shifted so far into seller’s favor that dealers can abandon even those standards.

> dealers can abandon even those standards.

Again, based on anecdata, They really have.

I heard of one person who confirmed a price with a dealer, drove there, then suddenly Salesmanager Bob (who confirmed the price) is suddenly unavailable, and the other sales managers couldn't possibly honour that because there's all these other fees, charges, mandatory addons for it.

Their attitude is basically if you want it, and you've spent this much time already trying to buy it - what's another couple of thousand to you.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#258

Post by telcal »

slrd7z88 wrote: post #49
ramraj07 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most states in the US have laws banning the direct sale of cars without dealers.

For states like California where it is legal, can you only buy Teslas directly?

Tesla's can only be bought new directly from Tesla. They are the manufacturer and "dealer". The sales people work on salary, no commission. Here's the list of states where you can't buy a Tesla directly but there are workarounds for those people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#259

Post by Gh0stRAT »

rsync wrote: post #100
Gh0stRAT wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I did. I had my checkbook and was there to put in a deposit when I found out. Here's an abridged version of how the conversation went: > Me: I don't want that and won't be paying for it. > Them: Well we do it for all new cars and you can't have us not do it. > Me: Well then you can either eat the cost of this unnecessary "service" or sell me the car for $700 under MSRP to make up for it. > Them: S…

We’re you aware at the time that you were acting out a scene from the movie Fargo ?

No, I'll apparently have to bump it up my to-watch list!

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#260

Post by belltaco »

lelanthran wrote: post #196
mzs wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your driver's license being photo copied is one of the first steps in buying a car at a dealership.

> Your driver's license being photo copied is one of the first steps in buying a car at a dealership. Before you request a quote? I was suggesting getting the quote before buying.

It's for the test drive so you don't run off without traceability with the car.
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