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Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

lichess.org

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Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#111

Post by jaywalk »

synu wrote: post #89
fragmede wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we want to use sports analogies we don't have to use Nike and Adidas as stand-ins, golf is undergoing this right now, between the PGA and LIV tournaments, and members with exclusivity clauses in their contracts.

I understand PGA and LIV are both for-profit. Do either/both forbid their athletes from competing in charity/non-profit tournaments?

LIV doesn't forbid their golfers from anything, as far as I know. It's the PGA that banned LIV golfers, not the other way around. LIV golfers still compete in non-LIV, for-profit tournaments that aren't part of the PGA Tour.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#112

Post by tarentel »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #28
bitcharmer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons That's just not true. I've been using both for a long time and chess.com has more intuitive UI. I frequently find myself exporting my games from lichess into chess.com simply because the latter offers superior game analysis experience.

I would love to know what makes chess.com UI more intuitive in your eyes. They seem quite similar.

I agree with you on this. I hear this argument a lot and it seems like people only used parts of both sites or something. I've been using both for a while now, mainly the iOS apps, I have a paid diamond chess.com account. They both have strong and weak points in their UX.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#113

Post by _57jb »

I love playing on lichess. My kid is a fan of chess.com and I try to play with him occasionally, I just have a stronger preference towards the former.

It almost feels like the Wikipedia vs Encyclopedia Britannica argument. Chess.com just feels like a company driven on profits whereas lichess has made adjustments to be reasonable about their own OpEx costs (specifically just the controls on game analysis and not wasting compute).

I really respect and appreciate the work lichess does.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#114

Post by galleywest200 »

tgtweak wrote: post #106

This feels like pga vs LIV in the golf world - just platforms trying their hardest to be anticompetitive and players/viewers losing out.

The difference here is that Lichess is free and open source, where as both of the golf organizations are for profit.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#115

Post by as_bntd »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

> Their product is simply inferior in every way

I disagree and I play almost exclusively on Lichess. In chess.com you can:

1. set up multiple pre-moves and

2. play several variants that aren't in lichess, including 4-player chess (this is mostly the reason I sometimes use chess.com).

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#116

Post by dalbasal »

robertlagrant wrote: post #80
dalbasal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree with you in a lot of cases, especially public administration but... In Thibault's case, he has consciously and deliberately made it so that his political views do affect choices at all levels. A lot of it is quite direct. If you are "communist^," then you think differently about login, data retention. You make feature decisions differently. You also make hiring/expansion/strategy decisions differently.…

This doesn't seem to be much to do with communism. You can operate not for profits or charities in capitalist systems (in fact some of its strongest proponents would much prefer people give money directly to charities to help people, rather than pay taxes to a government that might help people). I don't see what's communist about it. It's just that the developer has arrived at "charity" via the route of communism. Th…

That's why I noted "Thibault Communism" to narrow it to his specific thinking on this, which IMO is quite lovely and unique.

TD is the one who who articulated it this way, and there are pretty strong logical and operative links between his ideas and actions.

There are lots of differences between chess.com and Lichess, societal and otherwise.

Anyway, I'm not claiming that Lichess is superior in every way, just that it's great and unique. There are lots of successful companies/startups/sites operating on the chess.com mindset. Lichess is quite unique.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#117

Post by naet »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

Chess.com has plenty of value, it just isn't as free or open as lichess.

Cheds.com supports more game modes / variations (bughouse and puzzle rush are two favorites!), better social features, built in lessons and lectures you can buy or subscribe to, the client is snappy and lets you set up a sequence of premoves instead of just one, etc.

Lichess also has some killer features of it's own: everything is free, including tournaments, the titled arenas are nice, the analysis tools are free and easy to use, etc.

There doesn't have to be just one platform. A paid and open source platform can both offer different value propositions even if there's some overlap.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#118

Post by naet »

BbzzbB wrote: post #104
IAmNotAFix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who started playing without having any idea about the platform landscape, and therefore chose the first Google result, which seemed to have a legit UI and domain name, and then met people who also happen to be on this platform, I would guess that their main strengths are: SEO, UI, brand, and the network effect.

How much does network effect really matter past a certain point for low-to-mid ELO chess players? Whether there are 100 or 10k players in my ELO range at any given time, I'm unlikely to even notice it. IMO you just have to get past a certain threshold (which both Lichens and Chesscom have long passed); granted it is probably higher the better of a player you are as your opponent pool thins out.

In my anecdotal experience, lichess has a smaller playerbase and it's most noticeable in the middle elo where certain lines or trends end up very popular in the lichess community and get overplayed. Whereas on chess.com I am more likely to see a bigger variety of openings. I had written off chess.com in favor of lichess but now that I play both I actually enjoy the chess.com user base as a differentiator between the two.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#119

Post by Moodles »

fragmede wrote: post #65
radarsat1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lichess is a platform though, not an accessory. I think a better comparison would be, would Nike be happy if Ronaldo played in a tournament on a field owned by Adidas, in a world in which Adidas is a nonprofit company giving shoes to anyone who wants them. The answer may very well still be "no, they would not be happy," but I bet the public reaction to being forbidden from a public tournament would be different than…

If we want to use sports analogies we don't have to use Nike and Adidas as stand-ins, golf is undergoing this right now, between the PGA and LIV tournaments, and members with exclusivity clauses in their contracts.

Same in MMA: athletes are stuck competing either in the UFC, Bellator, etc.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#120

Post by mark_l_watson »

Interesting. I spend about 3 or 4 hours a week watching Chess games re-streamed on YouTube and never use the Chess online platforms. I missed the drama.

From my point of view, it is all good, and I am happy to see players getting compensated any way possible. BTW, Nakamura is especially entertaining!

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