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Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

lichess.org

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Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#41

Post by GuB-42 »

permo-w wrote: post #35
soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

>Would Nike be happy if Portugal’s Cristiano Ronaldo suddenly appeared in Adidas shoes? how about if Ronaldo appeared wearing shoes given to him by a charity?

Nike wouldn't be happy either. Probably won't make a fuss because it is bad for PR, but they will definitely take note and it will come back when it is time to talk money.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#42

Post by janekm »

soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

> Would Nike be happy if Portugal’s Cristiano Ronaldo suddenly appeared in Adidas shoes?

Well... it is happening the other way round, with runners wearing Nikes and painting over them to try and not annoy their other brand sponsors: https://www.businessinsider.com/nike-vaporfly-shoes-runners-...

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#43

Post by jstx1 »

permo-w wrote: post #38
mythz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way. it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more

> but you have to seek it out,

I don't think there's any seeking out necessary - you have 3 things to click on after a game - rematch, new opponent and analysis. Like is there really a user demographic that (1) is interested in game analysis and (2) doesn't notice or understand the button that's shown as an option at the end of every game?

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#44

Post by IAmNotAFix »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

As someone who started playing without having any idea about the platform landscape, and therefore chose the first Google result, which seemed to have a legit UI and domain name, and then met people who also happen to be on this platform, I would guess that their main strengths are: SEO, UI, brand, and the network effect.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#45

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

jstx1 wrote: post #43
permo-w wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way. it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more

> but you have to seek it out, I don't think there's any seeking out necessary - you have 3 things to click on after a game - rematch, new opponent and analysis. Like is there really a user demographic that (1) is interested in game analysis and (2) doesn't notice or understand the button that's shown as an option at the end of every game?

I think their point was that Chess.com drops you into analysis mode automatically when a game ends, whereas on lichess you have to go to analysis mode.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#46

Post by sireat »

Chess has always had this dichotomy over free/paid services. (a bit not unlike programming tools).

I love lichess.org but make no mistake: without the dedication of one talented Scala programmer willing to underpay themselves that site would not exist.

Commercial sites can provide more services and offer more opportunities to chess professionals simply due to the funding model.

Disclaimer: I've played over 100k online chess games since 1992. Starting with original ICS (client was on Xwindows) before ICS/FICS split drama, then chessbase.com, then chess.com and now lichess.org. I slightly prefer lichess but play on chess.com as well.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#47

Post by jstx1 »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #45
jstx1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you have to seek it out, I don't think there's any seeking out necessary - you have 3 things to click on after a game - rematch, new opponent and analysis. Like is there really a user demographic that (1) is interested in game analysis and (2) doesn't notice or understand the button that's shown as an option at the end of every game?

I think their point was that Chess.com drops you into analysis mode automatically when a game ends, whereas on lichess you have to go to analysis mode.

Being auto-moved to a place I didn't select seems like a worse user experience to me. But I'm sure it helps chess.com's conversion rate to paid users or whatever.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#48

Post by radarsat1 »

soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

Lichess is a platform though, not an accessory. I think a better comparison would be, would Nike be happy if Ronaldo played in a tournament on a field owned by Adidas, in a world in which Adidas is a nonprofit company giving shoes to anyone who wants them.

The answer may very well still be "no, they would not be happy," but I bet the public reaction to being forbidden from a public tournament would be different than if he were just punished for wearing the wrong shoes one day.

That said of course a contract is a contract, and it's probably something Hikaru should have considered in taking it. He likes to push the envelope though, which is respectable in its own right. I'm happy to just watch the drama with popcorn in hand. (After all, he's doing this for content right? he's shrewd, surely considered the positives and negatives.. don't underestimate what he stands to make from content, it could very well compete with what he gets from sponsorship, for all I know.)

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#49

Post by shric »

jstx1 wrote: post #26
bitcharmer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons That's just not true. I've been using both for a long time and chess.com has more intuitive UI. I frequently find myself exporting my games from lichess into chess.com simply because the latter offers superior game analysis experience.

> chess.com has more intuitive UI This is just mindblowing to me. It's not just that I disagree but I think the opposite is true, and by a very large margin too. I guess people just have different preferences when it comes to UI but especially for fast time controls, I don't get how people put up with chess.com, it's outright unusable for me.

Strongly agree with you. Both the chess playing UI and exploring the rest of the site -- lichess is vastly superior.

Prominent example when you click "Play" you go to https://www.chess.com/play and get presented with a chess board. At this point, it actually lets you make an initial move. But you're not playing anyone! You then need to click, for example, "Play online".

The rest of the site is disorganised. For example there's stuff under "Learn" and "Resources" and I can never remember where to find things.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#50

Post by mythz »

permo-w wrote: post #38
mythz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way. it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more

As a subscriber I do "pay for more", so I see the complete analysis available after each game which has better UX and available content.

You make it sound like chess.com shoves heaps of dark practice's IAP in your face, which isn't true, after I've paid for a subscription [1] I've seen no more paywall content or any more monetization options, I get full access to their sub content & features, which because it's great value and tastefully done, I intend to re-subscribe next year if I'm still playing by then.

[1] https://chess.com/membership

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