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Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

lichess.org

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Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#101

Post by lupire »

robertlagrant wrote: post #80
dalbasal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree with you in a lot of cases, especially public administration but... In Thibault's case, he has consciously and deliberately made it so that his political views do affect choices at all levels. A lot of it is quite direct. If you are "communist^," then you think differently about login, data retention. You make feature decisions differently. You also make hiring/expansion/strategy decisions differently.…

This doesn't seem to be much to do with communism. You can operate not for profits or charities in capitalist systems (in fact some of its strongest proponents would much prefer people give money directly to charities to help people, rather than pay taxes to a government that might help people). I don't see what's communist about it. It's just that the developer has arrived at "charity" via the route of communism. Th…

It's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but Thibault gives chesd according to his ability, and users get chess according to their needs.

https://github.com/ornicar

> Save the trees

> Maker of lichess.org, a hippie communist chess server for drug fueled atheists

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#102

Post by rtpg »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #39
mythz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

Some people will always disagree, but it's been my experience that when people try both sites, most people end up preferring Lichess. Certainly when comparing lichess to Chess.com's free tier, there simply is no contest. When people say the opposite, it seems to always be people who have been chess.com customers for years, suggesting a possible post-purchase rationalisation

I have accounts on both. I think the chess.com video content is great, the puzzle content is great, all the extra little features like puzzle rush is great… the one unfortunate thing is the ads. I pay for chess.com but when friends play it sounds pretty annoying.

There’s a lot of incidental stuff I dislike in lichess’ UI, but at the end of the day chess.com offers lots of stuff to learners (straightforward reviews, with recent game review features offering _why_ moves are good)

But hey, more power to everyone! Just tired of people going out of their way to claim that chess.com is garbage. I’m glad lichess exists and will play some games on it. But there’s a reason that chess.com has more users and it’s not just the domain name.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#104

Post by BbzzbB »

IAmNotAFix wrote: post #44
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

As someone who started playing without having any idea about the platform landscape, and therefore chose the first Google result, which seemed to have a legit UI and domain name, and then met people who also happen to be on this platform, I would guess that their main strengths are: SEO, UI, brand, and the network effect.

How much does network effect really matter past a certain point for low-to-mid ELO chess players? Whether there are 100 or 10k players in my ELO range at any given time, I'm unlikely to even notice it. IMO you just have to get past a certain threshold (which both Lichens and Chesscom have long passed); granted it is probably higher the better of a player you are as your opponent pool thins out.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#105

Post by soegaard »

nebulous1 wrote: post #95
soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

I've never had anything against chess.com, and I used to be a premium member but have since moved to lichess. I think that the chess world could do with more money so I have nothing against a site providing a revenue stream, even if their actual aim is to profit themselves. It would be disappointing if chess.com are engaged in clandestine anti-lichess behaviour. There might already be some information out there that…

>> It works the other way too: Wen did you last see Magnus play on Chess.com?

> Actually, I don't get your point here. Ideally players would be free to make their own decisions on an ongoing basis, which is what we assume Magnus is doing.

In this respect Magnus doesn't think like a player. As owner/investor of Chess24 why advertise Chess.com? He sticks to Chess24 and once in a while to Lichess.

Who broke the news that Magnus wasn't going to play Nepo? Chess24 of course - not a coincidence.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#107

Post by runarberg »

soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

In the Go world it is quite common for streamers to rotate between the different servers. It adds a layer of interest since each server has a different pool of players with different styles in general. For example, PandaNet (IGS) is known for hosting passive, territorial players, while Tygem is known for aggressive players that fight over everything, while OGS is known for principled players. Sometimes you even see streamers playing on one server while using other servers’ clients for reviewing a game they played on a completely server.

I take it from this discussion that this is not so common in the chess world. If that is the case, then chess is missing out.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#108

Post by soegaard »

radarsat1 wrote: post #48
soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

Lichess is a platform though, not an accessory. I think a better comparison would be, would Nike be happy if Ronaldo played in a tournament on a field owned by Adidas, in a world in which Adidas is a nonprofit company giving shoes to anyone who wants them. The answer may very well still be "no, they would not be happy," but I bet the public reaction to being forbidden from a public tournament would be different than…

> Lichess is a platform though, not an accessory. I think a better comparison would be, would Nike be happy if Ronaldo played in a tournament on a field owned by Adidas, in a world in which Adidas is a nonprofit company giving shoes to anyone who wants them.

I see your point. Chess played on the internet is an e-sport. So let's compare it to Fall Guys and Stumble Guys.

If a streamer is paid to advertise Stumble Guys, Kitka Games would be annoyed to see Fall Guys being played.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#109

Post by BbzzbB »

jstx1 wrote: post #43
permo-w wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way. it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more

> but you have to seek it out, I don't think there's any seeking out necessary - you have 3 things to click on after a game - rematch, new opponent and analysis. Like is there really a user demographic that (1) is interested in game analysis and (2) doesn't notice or understand the button that's shown as an option at the end of every game?

Call me an idiot if you'd like, but it took me more time than I'd like to admit to figure out how to use Lichess' analysis. Even if I sticked to the platform, being a sucker for OSS and free, I've abandonned the analysis option for quite a while thinking it was confusing and inferior to Chesscom's.

You do have to seek it out. Even when you click on analysis, you still have to activate the engine and select a move back in time to start seeing arrows and whatever the score advantage thing is called. It's not rocket science, but you're not handheld and it's certainly not "analysis" followed by a PowerPoint of what great and terrible move happened; it's self-analysis with Stockfish.

In the end I came to prefer Lichess' analysis board, but I think they'd have to gain walking you thru it better. I kinda doubt my father, who's not a dumby nor Internet-illiterate, would find it intuitive as it is. A highlight real of important move would seemingly be trivial to implement while also being straightforward to follow for anyone clicking on analysis for the first time, bringing them to dive in the self-analysis board. It would take nothing away for those who want to flicker thru their whole games, just remember a toggle option.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#110

Post by arwineap »

dubeye wrote: post #37

There is about one post a month on this, which seems to most serve as opportunity for lichess users to assert the site is superior in every way. It's snappier, and there are some analysis features that are better than the com's free offering. But overall, if you pay, the com is a much more complete and rewarding experience.

> But overall, if you pay, the com is a much more complete and rewarding experience.

I switched to lichess while my diamond chess.com membership was still running. I definitely don't agree with this assessment.

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