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Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

lichess.org

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Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#31

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

bitcharmer wrote: post #21
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

> Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons That's just not true. I've been using both for a long time and chess.com has more intuitive UI. I frequently find myself exporting my games from lichess into chess.com simply because the latter offers superior game analysis experience.

I find the chess.com UI utterly confusing myself.

I have a lot of friends with a mere passing interest in chess, and most of them had naturally ended up on chess.com. They had never heard of Lichess. But invariably once they tried it they all said the same thing: lichess is much more intuitive and easy to use.

As for analysis, I think computer analysis is not actually very helpful anyway, unless a lot of effort is put into analysing the computer lines and discarding those that you couldn't possibly be expected to find. Most people who use computer analysis don't do this, and they walk away with the wrong conclusions. Chess.com might have a better experience for getting those wrong conclusions, I don't know. And hell, analysing blitz and rapid games is a waste of time anyway, other than looking up opening improvements.

The only analysis I do on Lichess then is mostly looking at the opening in blitz games where the opening went wrong for me, and maybe seeing if I missed a tactic in some position I was unsure about during the game. Lichess is perfectly fine for that.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#32

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

throwaway290 wrote: post #29
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle there is no reason a site like Lichess can't hold tournaments with a prize-fund sourced from commercial sponsors. The problem is that companies like chess.com and chess24 tend to sponsor these things, and they're in direct competition with lichess.

Lichess needs money itself. It survives off donations. The evidence points that it is pretty far from being able to sponsor chess players and let them make a living from doing what they love, like a commercial platform could do.

If you read my comment carefully you'll find I didn't say lichess themselves could sponsor prize funds. I explicitly said they'd have to source the funds from other sponsors.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#33

Post by mythz »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

> Their product is simply inferior in every way

Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com.

I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#34

Post by jiggunjer »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #28
bitcharmer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons That's just not true. I've been using both for a long time and chess.com has more intuitive UI. I frequently find myself exporting my games from lichess into chess.com simply because the latter offers superior game analysis experience.

I would love to know what makes chess.com UI more intuitive in your eyes. They seem quite similar.

for me it's having my game records accessible on the front page, I spend more time analyzing my games than playing.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#35

Post by permo-w »

soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

>Would Nike be happy if Portugal’s Cristiano Ronaldo suddenly appeared in Adidas shoes?

how about if Ronaldo appeared wearing shoes given to him by a charity?

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#36

Post by [deleted] »

soegaard wrote: post #25

There is plenty of room for all of Chess.com, Chess24 and Lichess to exist. Lichess has the best platform to play on and is free to use. Chess.com is a business. As such they want to earn money. However, without a large, online chess community there will be no subscribers. The amount of effort chess.com has made to sponsor events, streamers etc. is tremendous. Making a living as a chess professional is tough. Streami…

[deleted]

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#37

Post by dubeye »

There is about one post a month on this, which seems to most serve as opportunity for lichess users to assert the site is superior in every way.

It's snappier, and there are some analysis features that are better than the com's free offering.

But overall, if you pay, the com is a much more complete and rewarding experience.

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#38

Post by permo-w »

mythz wrote: post #33
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

the lichess post game analysis is as good as that of chess.com, but isn’t presented in quite such a shiny appealing way.

it’s not hard to find, but you have to seek it out, whereas chess.com shoves it in your face and tries to get you to pay for more

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#39

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

mythz wrote: post #33
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #6

Paying off Chess streamers is pretty much the only way Chess.com can keep people using their site. Their product is simply inferior in every way, except for their library of master lessons, and all these GMs exclusively streaming through Chess.com. I figure all this spending on sponsorship and GM content is why the rest of their site is so inferior to Lichess. Lichess can spend all their time perfecting the platform,…

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

Some people will always disagree, but it's been my experience that when people try both sites, most people end up preferring Lichess. Certainly when comparing lichess to Chess.com's free tier, there simply is no contest.

When people say the opposite, it seems to always be people who have been chess.com customers for years, suggesting a possible post-purchase rationalisation

Re: Hikaru Nakamura's Forbidden Platform

#40

Post by dubeye »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #39
mythz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their product is simply inferior in every way Completely untrue, I've played on both and the UX + post game Analysis, video content library, etc is far better on chess.com. I do hope lichess.org is able to improve and find better monetization options that's able to pay for more dev + UX resources, championship prizes + GM commentators which makes watching chess far more entertaining.

Some people will always disagree, but it's been my experience that when people try both sites, most people end up preferring Lichess. Certainly when comparing lichess to Chess.com's free tier, there simply is no contest. When people say the opposite, it seems to always be people who have been chess.com customers for years, suggesting a possible post-purchase rationalisation

It could be also said, those who tend to talk up lichess don't tend to have much experience using the paid features, so overall tricky to analyse these comments. As often it's the free versions being compared. With com users extolling the paid features, and lichess users extolling their free features.
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