Earlier quoted context omitted.
So don't subscribe to them.
But the whole point of this thread is that everything is moving to subscriptions. So... dont use any service ever then I guess?
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Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
371–380 of 438 posts
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#372Eventually, I imagine that open source alternatives to subscription productivity/creative software will get good enough (see Blender) that customers held hostage by these companies will migrate over en masse.
Personally, I find most of these subscriptions offensive, so I gladly look forward to this future.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
Operating systems are starting to make that impossible. I used to use an old version of Quicken for Mac (this was back in the MacOS 10.2 days). It was "finished" in that it did absolutely everything I needed and there were no bugs that affected me. As time marched on, Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel which was fine because they had technology (Rosetta) which allowed me to run PowerPC applications. Then they dropp…
Would you consider running an emulator to keep using the original software? In gaming this has become mainstream as GOG and Steam now leverage DOSBox for this purpose. Personally I think vendors beyond a certain size should be regulated so they must maintain BC for some minimum period like 20y. Regressions should incur fines unless it's proven they are required for security fixes.
I’m torn on this. For both apps I mentioned there is a reasonable path forward, it’s simply a matter of buying a newer version. But it really amounts to spending extra money to get functionality I’ve already paid for once, after all both of these programs are 100% complete and bug free relative to my requirements.
I’ve got a few GOG games and they’ve done an incredible packaging job with DOSBox - if there was a way to take an old PPC Mac app and package it up to run in a similar manner, I’d have probably taken a serious look at it back when Rosetta was discontinued.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, but there are plenty of subscription apps that could just drop the cloud features and like 99% of the user base would be fine with that, Office and Adobe suites being obvious examples.
Sure, I don't intend to dispute that at all. There are also cloud-based apps that absolutely could not be, and at least part of the reasoning is probably to make it easier to charge a subscription fee. I think the model's seen as being more lucrative, so even businesses that don't inherently need it so much try to find a way to adopt it.
Agreed.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Operating systems are starting to make that impossible. Microsoft operating systems have always strived to make that impossible. Apple has to compete somehow. When you push unfinished, not-fully-tested code out the door, even if you can confidently patch it later, it's just never been the most professional thing to do. Especially for something that could be mission-critical like an OS. Getting it into people's hands…
>> "Microsoft operating systems have always strived to make that impossible." That's the one thing I've never seen someone accuse Microsoft of. They're famous for their obsession with backward compatibility. It sounds like you've had a different experience, and now I'm curious. Care to share?
Microsoft's backward compatibility was always impressive until Windows 10 (ignoring the death of 16-bit on 64-bit Windows). S Mode and the store are great examples of how Microsoft has lost interest in supporting third-party binaries. They want to own Android, not Windows.
I've had software break in the forced feature upgrades of 10, and I had BSODs when printing on every machine I supported at work thanks to a security patch.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's absolutely cases where software should be a subscription model and there's absolutely cases where it shouldn't be. My thoughts on this: 1. How long would it take a team of 4 people to build this with just the features I need for a single user? 2. How much would it cost to contract a team to build that (ball bark)? If it can be done on a single person's salary, I'm not paying a monthly subscription, no matte…
I've always thought about this in relation to the cost to the company rather than the consumer. I appreciate that different perspective. Do you think there's a case where something might have an infinite cost to the consumer but a finite cost to the company? Ie a solution to some recurring problem that, without the software or service the customer would endlessly pay for, but with the software or service would not in…
In those situations, it’s probably better to create an open source product that you sell support for. Customers that have the resources to build their own are also the customers who are willing to buy the closed source version until they can afford the time to replace it (auth0 cough). If you make it open source, those same companies would rather use what you’ve already built and probably contribute back to your project. The customers who could never afford to replace it will likely buy support for an open source version as well. Especially if you don’t advertise that it’s free (discourse) for a bit more work. You can also sell a hosted version for a subscription.
Now you’ve set yourself up for a community to grow: core devs you pay, customers that contribute code and help diagnose bugs, customers that pay you only for support, and customers that pay you to do everything.
I did this once, and the support-only customers were the most interesting. They helped locate latent race conditions that only appeared on underpowered hardware, but could happen on over-subscribed machines (like the hosted version), and so much more.
I never got any contributions on the code side, but one guy randomly took over responding to issues without being asked to. By the time I got to them, it would be ready to close or I would have enough information to address it immediately.
If you are going this route, just be aware that companies *will* eventually replace you with a home-grown solution. Even if it takes years. So ask yourself if you want to be the solution everyone goes to, you need an FOSS solution to give people. Otherwise, you’ll be replaced with the other ones, eventually.
IOW, if a company like auth0 were to have an open source server, they’d be killing it everywhere. Five or six years ago. By now, there’s enough free (as in free speech) solutions out there that they will probably never be the default solution, just one that you pay for for a little while until you figure out how or have the time to host your own.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me add some more fuel to the debate - How can software-as-a-service be regulated in a way that it balances consumer rights and the rights of a business? Perhaps: 1. Every SaaS business should be compelled to offer both a subscription price and perpetual license at a fixed price. 2. The fixed price of a perpetual license should not be more than 10x or 20x (?) of the monthly subscription price. 3. If a user has opt…
Regulation is the worst solution to any of this. Let the free market figure it out and you'll find enough competition if there really is enough demand.
The so-called "free" market doesn't care about consumer rights, though.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
This used to be the case. Photoshop, for instance. I don't need it to have new features; there are certain things I need it to do for me, and that's it. I don't need constant new features. But I do expect security updates. Same model we have with cars (that BMW is trying hard to upend): it has the features I need, and if there's a systemic defect that poses a safety risk across those models sold, they're expected to…
>> I don't need constant new features. But I do expect security updates. Isn't updates to software in response to emerging security issues a "feature"?
Nope lol it's most closely relatable to a product recall/repair.
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regulation is the worst solution to any of this. Let the free market figure it out and you'll find enough competition if there really is enough demand.
The so-called "free" market doesn't care about consumer rights, though.
What part of this is about consumer rights?
Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
BMWs test-balloon gets bad rep, but the PR kerfuffle just shows how much we're influenced by marketing, considering Tesla's offering of selling you a cheaper car that will be permanently disabled from receiving certain software enabled features and no such outcry happening at all. To play devils advocate: - it streamlines production massively - while still allowing the most affordable version to be bought - but impro…
I had the same reaction. I went as far as calculating it. If you’re a leasee, the heated seat subscription saves you money over your 3 years of ownership. BMW being a luxury brand, a large chunk of owners are going to lease. Plus, BMW had an option to opt-out and buy lifetime.
When calculating it did you count hot months? I imagine in the majority of months having seat warmers is useless.