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Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

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Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#221

Post by closewith »

nathan_compton wrote: post #141
Brian_K_White wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I sold furniture, the designs and manufacturing processes and materials usage all undergo continuous iteration, yet when I sell you your chair, you don't have to keep paying me forever to keep using it. Yes, you also don't get updates to it. That is actually perfectly fine for countless bits of software. I have 30 year old software, and it still does it's original job just fine, if I happen to be ok with all it's…

No one is going to use an unpatched bug in your chair to rob your house.

However, if your chair allows someone to rob your house, in most jurisdictions, the manufacturer will face enormous liability. Maybe we should introduce that expectation for software developers, too.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#222

Post by d13 »

nathan_compton wrote: post #141
Brian_K_White wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I sold furniture, the designs and manufacturing processes and materials usage all undergo continuous iteration, yet when I sell you your chair, you don't have to keep paying me forever to keep using it. Yes, you also don't get updates to it. That is actually perfectly fine for countless bits of software. I have 30 year old software, and it still does it's original job just fine, if I happen to be ok with all it's…

No one is going to use an unpatched bug in your chair to rob your house.

If my unpatched chair breaks because of a manufacturing defect I’ll sue the company.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#223

Post by ghaff »

daveoc64 wrote: post #96
danielvaughn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind that there are people in this thread who think that a business should charge once for a product that requires iteration or continued backend support.

That's how a lot of games work (and have done for decades). You buy the game once, then get access to online multiplayer servers. Subscription models encourage constant needless changes to the product.

>Subscription models encourage constant needless changes to the product.

As does the desire to sell paid upgrades.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#225

Post by julianlam »

ekianjo wrote: post #211
codeptualize wrote: post #63

I don't mind subscriptions, I actually prefer them for many things. Especially for software I rely on I want the developers to consistently earn money so they keep motivated to work on it, do maintenance and fix bugs. I don't pay for software, I pay for the thing it allows me to do. Me paying a subscription fee creates an incentive and responsibility to keep things working. If there is a backend component to its even…

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

Security vulnerabilities are regularly found in many softwares (both online and offline), so that's one reason to upgrade.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#226

Post by eganist »

ekianjo wrote: post #211
codeptualize wrote: post #63

I don't mind subscriptions, I actually prefer them for many things. Especially for software I rely on I want the developers to consistently earn money so they keep motivated to work on it, do maintenance and fix bugs. I don't pay for software, I pay for the thing it allows me to do. Me paying a subscription fee creates an incentive and responsibility to keep things working. If there is a backend component to its even…

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

This used to be the case.

Photoshop, for instance. I don't need it to have new features; there are certain things I need it to do for me, and that's it. I don't need constant new features. But I do expect security updates.

Same model we have with cars (that BMW is trying hard to upend): it has the features I need, and if there's a systemic defect that poses a safety risk across those models sold, they're expected to fix it.

I agree that subscriptions have become toxic in their prevalence.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#227

Post by julianlam »

closewith wrote: post #221
nathan_compton wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is going to use an unpatched bug in your chair to rob your house.

However, if your chair allows someone to rob your house, in most jurisdictions, the manufacturer will face enormous liability. Maybe we should introduce that expectation for software developers, too.

Where does it end? I'm liable for my client's laziness in not upgrading to a patched version?

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#228

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

ekianjo wrote: post #211
codeptualize wrote: post #63

I don't mind subscriptions, I actually prefer them for many things. Especially for software I rely on I want the developers to consistently earn money so they keep motivated to work on it, do maintenance and fix bugs. I don't pay for software, I pay for the thing it allows me to do. Me paying a subscription fee creates an incentive and responsibility to keep things working. If there is a backend component to its even…

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

Operating systems are starting to make that impossible.

I used to use an old version of Quicken for Mac (this was back in the MacOS 10.2 days). It was "finished" in that it did absolutely everything I needed and there were no bugs that affected me. As time marched on, Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel which was fine because they had technology (Rosetta) which allowed me to run PowerPC applications. Then they dropped Rosetta, so now I had to choose whether to upgrade MacOS or continue to use Quicken.

I now use software called Banktivity to replace Quicken. Much like Quicken, Banktivity is "finished" as far as my requirements go. The version I have is Intel-only and Apple is switching to Arm processors. How long will Rosetta 2 last before it's pulled and I'm forced to choose between upgrading my OS and using this software?

I think there are similar things in the mobile world too. I think Google requires apps to use a minimum API version to maintain a listing in Google Play. I believe Apple does something similar with the App Store too. So short of regularly recompiling, testing, and publishing your app, everything in the stores has a finite lifetime.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#229

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Varqu wrote: post #218
Brian_K_White wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I sold furniture, the designs and manufacturing processes and materials usage all undergo continuous iteration, yet when I sell you your chair, you don't have to keep paying me forever to keep using it. Yes, you also don't get updates to it. That is actually perfectly fine for countless bits of software. I have 30 year old software, and it still does it's original job just fine, if I happen to be ok with all it's…

Speaking from a consumer perspective, there should be definitely 2 options: 1. You pay for a subscription $X per month and get the newest updates. 2. You pay $Y*X once, but then you are left with the version which you bought in the first place.

Why can't software like a music player or playing podcast function perfectly fine w9thout updates for 10 years. We had same audio formats for 10 years, and same OS audio API.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#230

Post by ClumsyPilot »

julianlam wrote: post #227
closewith wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, if your chair allows someone to rob your house, in most jurisdictions, the manufacturer will face enormous liability. Maybe we should introduce that expectation for software developers, too.

Where does it end? I'm liable for my client's laziness in not upgrading to a patched version?

you are liable for producing shit in the first place. If chairs killed people, ikea would not get away with 'well, they didnt pay us subscribrion to get a new safe version'

If spftware industry is a joke and can't sort out it's own mess, its on us, not the consumer

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