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Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

141–150 of 166 posts

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#141

Am I the only lunatic that drinks almost exclusively bottled water? I've done so since I was a child.

Doing so seems incredibly wasteful and pollution-generating. A filter pitcher like a Brita + a reusable water aluminum/glass/steel/whatever water bottle seems like it'd be a better substitute.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. What I’m perplexed by is this implication that the US isn’t one of the handful of countries leading the charge on breaking down gender roles and norms. (In large part because the economic changes you speak of haven’t reached other countries. Gender roles driven by the physical demands of subsistence agriculture are still the reality of life for most people.) As if folks in Asia and Africa are sittin…

The US is currently experiencing a hangover from the social effects of the cold war. The intentional construction of a christo-national subjective identity as a counterbalance to the atheistic Russian communists continues to reverberate in the socio-political sphere. There are some obvious contradictions when this meets the business world like, "shouldn't businesses with feminine cultural practices outcompete masculi…

Traditional gender roles aren’t a creation of “Christo-nationalistic subjective identity.”

Maybe that’s what’s responsible for OP’s confusion—the belief that Reagan invented these notions about gender, and they’re not near universal outside a handful of countries populated by descendants of Europeans?

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is currently experiencing a hangover from the social effects of the cold war. The intentional construction of a christo-national subjective identity as a counterbalance to the atheistic Russian communists continues to reverberate in the socio-political sphere. There are some obvious contradictions when this meets the business world like, "shouldn't businesses with feminine cultural practices outcompete masculi…

Traditional gender roles aren’t a creation of “Christo-nationalistic subjective identity.” Maybe that’s what’s responsible for OP’s confusion—the belief that Reagan invented these notions about gender, and they’re not near universal outside a handful of countries populated by descendants of Europeans?

Yup, even the "atheistic Russian communists" mentioned in parent post have held on to remarkably traditional ideas about gender roles, and this was in a context of promoting high female achievement in education, work and society in general.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There nothing right wing about this concern. As a progressive man I don’t want to be feminized, it’s terrifying, both at the personal and species level.

Quoted post unavailable.

Because there is a bell curve defining how a typical body is supposed to be and man-made chemicals in the water are causing deviations from that? Why isn’t that terrifying to you?

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#145
post #122
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day a few years ago, just as I reached my flat, a young child looked at me, turned to their mother and said “Mommy, mommy, is that a boy or a girl?”, because my combination pony tail and facial hair confused them. A few grown men have had the same problem, beginning a wolf-whistle when they saw me from behind only to abort part way through as they saw the front of my face.

Wolves don’t whistle though, at least cat’s actually call. I get what you’re trying to do, but come on.

I have no idea what you think I'm trying to do, because "sharing relevant life stories" isn't something I'd expect to get this reaction.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This still sounds concerning to me, if the dose is 2mg for a healthy adult what is it for children and infants? What about babies in the womb? We saw the same exact thing with PFAS/PFOA, the experts said it was harmless, present in impossibly small quantities, and it would "pass right through you" for literally years. But then it turned out the experts were completely wrong. They found 2000PPM of PFAS in my Mom's wel…

Also it's not just endocrine disruption. Forever chemicals and microplastics can lodge in muscle and cause accumulated damage as the body tries to encapsulate it to keep from getting injured. And the circulatory system where it can clog arteries/veins/capillaries and cut off circulation. The images in this paper show plastic fibers embedded in fish muscle: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971.…

> We eat a credit card's worth of microplastic every week, mostly coming from our water supply apparently

There ia a lot written about this online but they always skim over the detail of how humans actually ingest this.

Do you have any source that explains that the source is mostly via our water supply?

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#147
post #145
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wolves don’t whistle though, at least cat’s actually call. I get what you’re trying to do, but come on.

I have no idea what you think I'm trying to do, because "sharing relevant life stories" isn't something I'd expect to get this reaction.

This whole exchange is hilarious.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#148
post #90
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think OP's two points are that 1. backlash against "feminization of men" is something that people seem to care about more in the USA than other countries (HN audiences skew toward this population anyway); 2. these days, right-wing extremists in my country (USA) see "feminization of men" as a politically beneficial wedge issue, and this politicization makes it impossible to study the actual societal effects impartia…

> backlash against "feminization of men" is something that people seem to care about more in the USA than other countries Only because in most countries the established gender norms are taken for granted and aren’t being challenged.

Not really. Gender norms are being challenged pretty much everywhere. They certainly are in the Islamic world, in East Asia (including China), and in South America, which is most of the world.

Just because they didn't change in the same way or magnitude as they did in the West as of now doesn't mean they aren't being challenged - they very much are.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#149

Apparently everyone is downvoting everything they can because this is a sensitive topic. I'd just like to call out, where feminization is a major concern (US, maybe Europe), there is less than 1ng/L of this compound in water, see elsewhere on this thread for the graphic. The lowest dose of EE2 for trans-women is 2mg a day orally. That means whatever the dosage is in the US it's less than 1/10th* of what trans folk fi…

>So in the end the number is less than 1/20th. even for fully-grown adults it is an extremely alarming figure. god only knows the full extent of damage done to children by this and other phytoestrogens.

[deleted]

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but when you’re talking about order of magnitude differences there is a clear delineation and the fear is not unwarranted.

The normal levels are closer then you think. The exact numbers differ depending on what lab you ask, but the normal male range of estradiol in the blood is around 15-55 pg/mL, while the normal healthy female level can vary from 70-500 pg/mL depending on the current stage of the menstrual cycle. Normally that doesn't matter though as most of estradiol's effects are overridden by an overwhelming amount of testosterone

Yes but when the overwhelming majority of women are at >400 pg/ml and men under 20 pg/ml it’s more than an order of magnitude change.
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