Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

fangdaddy.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 438 posts

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#281

Post by Enginerrrd »

julianlam wrote: post #225
ekianjo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

Security vulnerabilities are regularly found in many softwares (both online and offline), so that's one reason to upgrade.

Sure, but in some products that's really a non-issue.

Like, take photoshop for an example. If you're a photographer that only ever edits your own photos, the odds of a needing a security update for photoshop are really minimal.

If you regularly edit photos from clients, maybe it's worth considering.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#282

Post by civilized »

danielvaughn wrote: post #86
Havoc wrote: post #15

I can deal with them conceptually - I just dislike how they go about things on the billing & signup side. Its usually quite darkpattern-y in vibe. See trials that switch to paid, or discounts for 1 month (heavily advertised) then extortionate rate (in fine print) after. Or easy online sign up, phone in during office hours to cancel. Or getting mercilessly hounded to re-sub after cancellation. If they just behaved a l…

The “phone in during office hours” technique led me to threaten a lawsuit on one occasion. I really think it should be illegal.

It just screams "we view our users as cows who must not be allowed to escape the milking apparatus".

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#283

Post by marginalia_nu »

tomnipotent wrote: post #251
marginalia_nu wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can release new versions though. This is what a large chunk of the software industry has done up until recently. Photoshop has gone through a lot of version numbers through the years. Although it does sort of put pressure on the developers to actually refine their product and continue to deliver tangible improvements. Nobody is going to pay for a UI that's been re-arranged a bit.

Except a "new version" is arbitrary, and the decision to do so was made for financial reasons and not technical. Every new version of Photoshop had some percentage of people complaining "why can't this update just be a patch?".

Yeah sure, although upgrading was optional. My point is the incentive is on the developer to make it worth while to pay for an upgrade, they can't just phone it in.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#284

Post by StevenWaterman »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #207
StevenWaterman wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metered usage, pay for what you use

Could you theoretically tokenize individual features? Only pay for the features you need, as and when you need them.

Definitely - that's basically what cloud platforms do. AWS doesn't charge you for S3 unless you're using it, and every feature has its own pricing

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#285

Post by dangus »

woodpanel wrote: post #257
nbzso wrote: post #208

SaaS model is applicable in some use cases. The VC like it, because they can give the investors comfortable idea of progressive growth and quick ROI. But I am patiently waiting to see what will be the consumer reaction when everything becomes compartmentalized and monetized to hell. Like the great ideas of geniuses in BMW headquarters:) https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-is-charging-a-subscription... https://www.wired…

BMWs test-balloon gets bad rep, but the PR kerfuffle just shows how much we're influenced by marketing, considering Tesla's offering of selling you a cheaper car that will be permanently disabled from receiving certain software enabled features and no such outcry happening at all. To play devils advocate: - it streamlines production massively - while still allowing the most affordable version to be bought - but impro…

I had the same reaction.

I went as far as calculating it. If you’re a leasee, the heated seat subscription saves you money over your 3 years of ownership.

BMW being a luxury brand, a large chunk of owners are going to lease.

Plus, BMW had an option to opt-out and buy lifetime.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#286

Post by skeeter2020 »

eganist wrote: post #226
ekianjo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

This used to be the case. Photoshop, for instance. I don't need it to have new features; there are certain things I need it to do for me, and that's it. I don't need constant new features. But I do expect security updates. Same model we have with cars (that BMW is trying hard to upend): it has the features I need, and if there's a systemic defect that poses a safety risk across those models sold, they're expected to…

>> I don't need constant new features. But I do expect security updates.

Isn't updates to software in response to emerging security issues a "feature"?

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#287

Post by kisamoto »

Zak wrote: post #128
jwr wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a cynical take, but is actually close to the truth. The usual take is that businesses are "greedy" and subscription models are "lucrative". The word I'd rather use is "sustainable". Maintaining software (any software) is an ongoing process, not a one-time effort. It needs to be paid for on an ongoing basis. Even a tiny phone app needs regular maintenance work just to stay current with OS and tools de…

> The usual take is that businesses are "greedy" and subscription models are "lucrative". "Greedy" as a criticism of a for-profit business makes about as much sense as "predatory" does as a criticism of a cat.

I think greedy is still a valid criticism - just because it's "for profit" doesn't mean "max out the profit at the expense of others".

If we assume that not all people (as it is people who drive these organisations) are greedy, we can also assume that greed is not baked into every profitable org.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#288

Post by indymike »

ekianjo wrote: post #211
codeptualize wrote: post #63

I don't mind subscriptions, I actually prefer them for many things. Especially for software I rely on I want the developers to consistently earn money so they keep motivated to work on it, do maintenance and fix bugs. I don't pay for software, I pay for the thing it allows me to do. Me paying a subscription fee creates an incentive and responsibility to keep things working. If there is a backend component to its even…

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

> Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs?

For a very long time the driver was operating system and hardware features.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#289

Post by skeeter2020 »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #110
danielvaughn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind that there are people in this thread who think that a business should charge once for a product that requires iteration or continued backend support.

If I sold furniture, the designs and manufacturing processes and materials usage all undergo continuous iteration, yet when I sell you your chair, you don't have to keep paying me forever to keep using it. Yes, you also don't get updates to it. That is actually perfectly fine for countless bits of software. I have 30 year old software, and it still does it's original job just fine, if I happen to be ok with all it's…

If you sold furniture you would also sell a heck of a lot more of it on very low, very long payment plans. Even more extreme with cars, resulting in leases that are essentially long term rentals or "subscriptions"

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#290

Post by paulryanrogers »

cptaj wrote: post #97
clement_b wrote: post #89

Yes, subscriptions for everything isn't good for consumers, but, if it was 'easy' to sell software as a one off before the cloud, it's a bit harder now with all the costs associated with cloud features such as everlasting storage, security, sync, compute, you name it. How do you sell something that consumes resources continuously at a one-off cost? SaaS can only work with a continuous revenue stream because the softw…

Yeah, please let me install software. No, I don't need your cloud.

I agree yet see the challenges too. What OS do you have? How often does it break compatibility? Once product is mature and market saturated how can business continue to exist?
Post reply on HN