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Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

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Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#81

Post by mikeyouse »

drak0n1c wrote: post #49
mikeyouse wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's transparently obvious that the Market was first place where it began to spread in humans - so "neither" isn't an option. The Market was unequivocally involved.

The reason for the doubt is that it wasn't transparent nor obvious. The Chinese government retroactively censored the institute's publications, Fall 2019 job postings, staff listings, and internal discussion of new symptoms amongst certain researchers [1]. There is a possibility that there were a few earlier cases than the market ones which were covered up to conceal negligence at the institute. [1] https://www.youtu…

It's just so silly -- we can do genomic analysis to figure out the lineage of every confirmed sample. "There's the possibility" is weasel wording that obscures the fact that there's literally no evidence for earlier cases.

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#82

Post by LatteLazy »

anewpersonality wrote: post #58

What do the logicians among us conclude? Occam's Razor? I am not smart enough to deduce the truth of all this nonsense.

All conclusions are weak because all theories are at least possible and there is no conclusive evidence. Instead of accepting we will never know, people will now tell you with 1000% (1e4) certainty that it was definitely X. They will queue to die on whatever hill their brains have randomly selected. It's like lemmings only they don't actually do that.

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#83

Post by systemvoltage »

dtx1 wrote: post #6

I don't believe this to be true. I consider the likelyhood that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the cause of this to be much higher than that the seafood market in wuhan was the cause and there's no reason to trust any media or NGO to be truthful in that regard.

Especially of importance is the market hypothesis was initially propelled by Peter Daszak with huge conflicts of interest as analyzed in excrutiating detail and sourced in Alina's Viral [2] book. I recommend this book, worth reading it as it strong arms every other hypothesis of COVID-19 origin and shows how unlikely it is.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Daszak

[2] https://www.harpercollins.com/products/viral-matt-ridleyalin...

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#85

Post by mikeyouse »

systemvoltage wrote: post #78
mikeyouse wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope - HN is one of the worst 'smart' places on the internet for Covid discussion. Every single thread immediately devolves into completely ascientific conspiracy ranting.

OTOH, complete submission to scientific sources without checking the details seems exactly opposite of how science should work. HN is probably overly scientific in this sense.

Nobody is "checking the details" in this thread - they're just wildly speculating based on their feelings and asserting that the absence of evidence about the virus originating at the WIV is very clearly suspicious...

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#86

Post by edm0nd »

ejb999 wrote: post #36

I wonder how many people who are seemingly willing to believe the self-serving CCP party-line on this, would be just as believing of the owners of a nuclear power plant in their town, once the drinking water became radioactive, claiming "it didn't come from the plant, someone else down the street must have done it" - that is just about as believable as this.

The CCP lies about everything from its GDP numbers to COVID infection rate and deaths. You simply cannot believe anything the Chinese government puts out.

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#87

Post by upupandup »

LatteLazy wrote: post #77

It's been fascinating and terrifying watching people (in general and on here) jump to answers that are nice but wrong (China did it on purpose, You can cure it with X, it's just the flu, etc) over the last few years. We will never know for certain what happened. It's honestly killed me support for democracy. 95% of people seem to be incapable of thinking about uncertainty and living with not knowing. They just jump h…

There's a difference between being informed and feeling informed. The Western civilization have increasing distanced itself from the former because its "offensive and hurts others feelings" in favor of the latter.

When emotion triumphs logic and reasoning, that society is nearing end of times. Such was the case for Roman empire, increasingly people's mentality started to shift away from reality and into idealized and complex web of absurdities leading up to its down fall, much of which were spouted by its upper echelon awash with luxury and comforts unaffordable by its masses

We see such absurdities being pushed in schools (ex. Math is racist) and in society in general which then antagonizes and gaslights, attacks opposing nuanced views that throws its own narratives into question.

While doing business with authoritarian states, we've ended up resembling in some form. It's a damn shame, once again reminded that open societies remain open only as long as its participants believe it to be so. If we close ourselves to one view then we are doomed to repeat the same attrocities that closed socities commit against individuals groups.

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#88

Post by mikeyouse »

marcosdumay wrote: post #54
anon23anon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't world leaders put pressure on china to clean up these wild life markets? Like better health practices and what not?

Aren't they doing that since 2020? AFAIK those markets are out-right banned already.

Yeah, they were meant to be largely banned since SARS1, the presence of raccoon dogs and foxes at the market in Wuhan is deeply problematic -- all of the people skeptical of China can still be skeptical!

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#89

Post by systemvoltage »

LatteLazy wrote: post #82
anewpersonality wrote: post #58

What do the logicians among us conclude? Occam's Razor? I am not smart enough to deduce the truth of all this nonsense.

All conclusions are weak because all theories are at least possible and there is no conclusive evidence. Instead of accepting we will never know, people will now tell you with 1000% (1e4) certainty that it was definitely X. They will queue to die on whatever hill their brains have randomly selected. It's like lemmings only they don't actually do that.

No one seems to be doing that. Can you tell us where anyone is claiming with 100% certainty?

Re: Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan was early epicenter of the Covid-19 pandemic

#90

Post by slg »

ejb999 wrote: post #36

I wonder how many people who are seemingly willing to believe the self-serving CCP party-line on this, would be just as believing of the owners of a nuclear power plant in their town, once the drinking water became radioactive, claiming "it didn't come from the plant, someone else down the street must have done it" - that is just about as believable as this.

What a weird statement to make. Sure, the coincidental nature draws extra suspicion, but new diseases appear naturally in the wild all the time. How often does drinking water in a city randomly turn radioactive from natural causes?
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