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Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

theatlantic.com

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Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#161

Post by mola »

lbrito wrote: post #75
vlyubin wrote: post #13

A Ukrainian here - couldn't disagree more with the author. Take a beloved in the West author like Solzhenitsyn, whose "compassion" suddenly evaporates when Ukrainian question is raised. Even a modern sci-fi author Sergei Lukyanenko does not shy away from racial jokes against Ukrainians or Lithuanians in his Dozor books. Ukraine is a pawn at the world stage, but if the West is serious about battling russia (for its ow…

I'm baffled how this seems only to apply to the Ukraine this one time. Any meaningful discussion is labeled "whataboutism" and dismissed. You will surely agree with me that Russia is not the world's pioneer in wars of aggression. What about (oh no, whataboutism! We can safely dismiss the argument without thinking now) all the other countries that did, and do the same? Should we also dismiss their cultural output? I'm…

This is not a meaningful discussion. There's an agression going on right now perpetrated by Russia. Talking about UK agression is just not relevant. It's an odd distraction.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#162

Post by NoboruWataya »

lbrito wrote: post #75
vlyubin wrote: post #13

A Ukrainian here - couldn't disagree more with the author. Take a beloved in the West author like Solzhenitsyn, whose "compassion" suddenly evaporates when Ukrainian question is raised. Even a modern sci-fi author Sergei Lukyanenko does not shy away from racial jokes against Ukrainians or Lithuanians in his Dozor books. Ukraine is a pawn at the world stage, but if the West is serious about battling russia (for its ow…

I'm baffled how this seems only to apply to the Ukraine this one time. Any meaningful discussion is labeled "whataboutism" and dismissed. You will surely agree with me that Russia is not the world's pioneer in wars of aggression. What about (oh no, whataboutism! We can safely dismiss the argument without thinking now) all the other countries that did, and do the same? Should we also dismiss their cultural output? I'm…

FYI, it's not "the Ukraine", it's "Ukraine".

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#166

Post by ROTMetro »

konart wrote: post #141
nineplay wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to challenge this because I think it suggests that reading the Russian classics is an intellectual challenge with a perquisite of studying Russian history and culture. Dostoyevsky's works are amazing without any background knowledge. No 'intellectualism' is required, just a love of stories. With a few tweaks they could be set in a modern era and turned into Netflex series. War and Peace is considered a chal…

>With a few tweaks they could be set in a modern era and turned into Netflex series. And Anna Karenina was in production too...

So... not knowing the subject Anna Karenina, I once put the audio book on while in the car the morning after spending the night with a Russian ex who was married, while driving along a train track with a train on it. She asked if I was encouraging her to kill us both.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#167

Post by lbrito »

mola wrote: post #161
lbrito wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm baffled how this seems only to apply to the Ukraine this one time. Any meaningful discussion is labeled "whataboutism" and dismissed. You will surely agree with me that Russia is not the world's pioneer in wars of aggression. What about (oh no, whataboutism! We can safely dismiss the argument without thinking now) all the other countries that did, and do the same? Should we also dismiss their cultural output? I'm…

This is not a meaningful discussion. There's an agression going on right now perpetrated by Russia. Talking about UK agression is just not relevant. It's an odd distraction.

Don't be disingenuous. I'm not talking specifically about the UK. I made that clear in the original post, but just to avoid further tangentials like this I made an edit so it is triple clear now.

It is so tiring when people nitpick one specific word to "refute" you so that the rest of what you said is automatically invalidated.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#169

Post by Koshkin »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #30
mmmpop wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't blame some Ukrainians for feeling the way that they do I can certainly see why they're upset but it's a problem with Russia's leader at the time, and not the culture right? If it's a long-standing cultural issue then I'd imagine some introspection would also be required, which seems like it may undermine the whole notion.

Frankly, we have been having problems with Russian leaders for the last couple centuries or three.

> we

Indeed, Russia has had its share of problems with Poland before that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Muscovite_War_(...

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#170

Post by unmole »

ROTMetro wrote: post #154
unmole wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the arguments are: 1. Pushkin supported the Russian unitary empire and subjugation of Ukraine. 2. Pushkin was instrumental in the development of the modern Russian language and is thus seen as symbolising the forced linguistic homogenisation imposed on Ukrainians. The first argument has some explaining power as to why Ukrainians wouldn't want to have a Pushkin memorial. The second argument is presented with a hel…

Why do you ignore that the one Federation that didn't teach Russian in schools was forced to change their policy? Russia can have all the written rules they want, they follow them the same way they followed their statements during February that 'they had no intention to invade Ukraine', or agree to allow Ukraine shipment of grain then bomb the ports to ensure no ships will risk docking there, or their law making non-…

> Why do you ignore that the one Federation that didn't teach Russian in schools was forced to change their policy?

What federation? I have no idea what you're talking about. I made a specific claim about the status of minority languages in Russia and Ukraine. Do you have any evidence to show that it is inaccurate?

> Russia can have all the written rules they want

What exactly are you implying in this specific instance? That minority languages aren't actually used? The state broadcaster runs services in a dozen or so minority languages.

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