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Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

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Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#71

Post by hrbf »

winternett wrote: post #39
jondwillis wrote: post #13

TikTok and Facebook’s antics (existence?) have me seriously considering quitting tech. I feel like no matter what I do, I am feeding one of these societal cancers by implementing tracking for whoever is paying me currently, lifting dark patterns, etc, using the API of Google… I tried to avoid doing these things for awhile but nobody pays me to be ethical. My only marketable skill is software development and I pretty…

I'm not as worried about the tracking as much as I'm baffled by how psychological manipulation is now a commonly accepted practice on social platforms. That totally obliterates any trustworthiness they could present as a business. Children suffer the most in this fake celebrity game. I use these apps a lot because I promote music I make... I don't really use black hat techniques to do so, but many people who do are c…

I have decided some time ago that I will not work for any company who is engaging in such practices. I will not feed the manipulation machine, to the best of my abilities. I don’t have to quit tech entirely but focus on parts where I can do good for people.

I’m now in talks with a foundation who is building communication tools for social and public initiatives. I don’t know if the idea will work out in the end but there are alternatives worth pursuing.

I really don’t understand the engineers and designers working at Facebook and similar companies. They cannot all be ignorant. There has to be some cultural angle of disdain for the regular user at play.

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#72

Post by pndy »

lopis wrote: post #62

Twitter has also been doing this since a few months ago. And there's no way to disable it, no matter how often I tell it to "see this less often". Sometimes half the posts I see on the feed are recommended posts from people I don't follow nor care about. Not to mention the "notifications" bell has been useless for years now because all my notifications are suggested posts from people I follow. It's a total perversion…

> no matter how often I tell it to "see this less often"

It's in the wording, innit? It's "don't show me again" but "less often" which implies you'll be nagged again with irrelevant content up until you gave up because the queue never ends as algorithm never sleeps.

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#74

Post by pndy »

LeonTheremin wrote: post #34

To evade the dark pattern use a proxy like ProxiTok/Bibliogram and read them from your feed reader, customized as you prefer.

Haven't seen Bibliogram working at all in last 3 or 4 months. Every instance gives me blocked message - guess Instagram is actively fighting against these "proxies".

There's this federated photo sharing service pixelfed [1](of course runs on ActivityPub) but it doesn't seem to be gaining any traction, comparable to mastodon. Perhaps because it doesn't come with a mobile application.

[1] - https://github.com/pixelfed/pixelfed

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#75

Post by winternett »

happymellon wrote: post #64
winternett wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but encryption is purposed as a security feature, Lidar is a data collection feature. https://www.opentopography.org/blog/iphone-lidar-application...

So is the camera on your phone purely a data collection feature that should be removed? How about the touch screen/keyboard?

Input devices like cameras and keyboards are necessary for interaction, and everyone who creates pretty much knows how to use them.

Lidar is completely different tech that can scan an entire room, faces of everyone in it without their consent, and even devices and products in the room with you, even things out of camera view.

Vastly more invasive, and most people are completely unaware it is on phones now and what it can do.

C'mon man... It's not an argument point, it's necessary privacy threat awareness.

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#76

Post by IlPeach »

lopis wrote: post #62

Twitter has also been doing this since a few months ago. And there's no way to disable it, no matter how often I tell it to "see this less often". Sometimes half the posts I see on the feed are recommended posts from people I don't follow nor care about. Not to mention the "notifications" bell has been useless for years now because all my notifications are suggested posts from people I follow. It's a total perversion…

Started using a third party client exactly for that reason (twidere)

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#77

Post by thiht »

prawn wrote: post #24

Instagram was trending down but has taken a dive in recent months. Just an unbearable proportion of ads and lame suggested content. You end up playing whack-a-mole trying to get it to stop showing you rubbish. It had been a not-insignificant part of my work but now I just resent using it at all.

I used Instagram everyday, mainly to follow local restaurants and shops. The new feed is awful and made me uninstall it, because it’s now:

- 1/3 ads

- 1/3 suggested content

- 1/3 actual content I followed, among which more and more tended to be sponsored

That’s just not worth my time.

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#78

Post by ls15 »

lrvick wrote: post #32
jondwillis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should specify that I am an iOS engineer.

Those skillsets can be rapidly translated to create things for non-walled-garden platforms.

Unfortunately the income stream cannot be rapidly translated though. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#79

Post by happymellon »

winternett wrote: post #75
happymellon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the camera on your phone purely a data collection feature that should be removed? How about the touch screen/keyboard?

Input devices like cameras and keyboards are necessary for interaction, and everyone who creates pretty much knows how to use them. Lidar is completely different tech that can scan an entire room, faces of everyone in it without their consent, and even devices and products in the room with you, even things out of camera view. Vastly more invasive, and most people are completely unaware it is on phones now and what it…

Phone cameras can scan an entire room of people, and faces of everyone in it without their consent. Including devices and products in the room.

Lidar will struggle with items in the room as it is simply an depth detection tech so it will simply see a box, rather than chocolate chip cookies.

I think lidar is an odd one, that's all. Phone cameras are significantly worse for privacy.

Re: Instagram gets worse with dark patterns lifted from TikTok

#80

Post by prawn »

thiht wrote: post #77
prawn wrote: post #24

Instagram was trending down but has taken a dive in recent months. Just an unbearable proportion of ads and lame suggested content. You end up playing whack-a-mole trying to get it to stop showing you rubbish. It had been a not-insignificant part of my work but now I just resent using it at all.

I used Instagram everyday, mainly to follow local restaurants and shops. The new feed is awful and made me uninstall it, because it’s now: - 1/3 ads - 1/3 suggested content - 1/3 actual content I followed, among which more and more tended to be sponsored That’s just not worth my time.

Exactly. It ends up feeling like almost everything you're watching is advertising.

If you use Instagram passively like television, you're watching usually-polished content interspersed with ads, which probably feels OK. Maybe this is the majority of people. If you use Instagram just to follow friends, unless their content is all very polished (it generally isn't - it's them walking their kid to school or a basic photo at the beach) then your feed feels like:

  1/6th mediocre (but relevant to you) content
  1/6th creator-type friends promoting places/things
  1/3rd suggested content
  1/3rd ads
Not a great ratio at all. Especially when the suggested content has been ramped up and the ads feel like they've doubled or tripled. Went from my favourite platform to most despised, which is quite an achievement for the Meta brains-trust.
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