Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

Post by SyzygistSix » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 12:37 AM UTC

enragedcacti wrote: post #191

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is true except for the part where no other manufacturer (other than Tesla) has a reliable source of batteries -- so they're subject to intense supply chain constraints that limit inventory drastically. And so they were unable to meet the consumer demand for EVs. Hence you simply can't even get a Ford F150 Lightning even though it looks like a great vehicle. This all pre-dated the COVID related supply chai…

Ford believes they have the battery supply for a 600,000 EV/year run rate by late-2023 and are shooting for 2,000,000/year by 2026. Bloomberg projects VW selling more EVs than Tesla by 2024 and they are planning to have 240GWh/yr of in-house battery production by 2030. BYD in China is fully vertically integrated on EV production, moreso than Tesla who relies on 3rd party mining and on Panasonic for chemistries/cell p…

Post by _hypx » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #139

smaudet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are putting gasoline vehicles and electric to shame: https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/car-news/article/toyota-mi... Of course, you can't readily buy or charge one yet, but you don't have the battery problem (at all).

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are in fact better than gasoline. A fact that I think often gets overlooked. But note, they do actually have batteries, similar to ICE serial hybrids. They key thing of course, is that building lots of batteries is not a 'problem', and it's lack of being a problem is exactly why BEVs are better than fuel-cell hydrogen cars for basically everything, except maybe long distance air transport.

Post by _hypx » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 2:03 AM UTC

SigmundA wrote: post #133

smaudet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are putting gasoline vehicles and electric to shame: https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/car-news/article/toyota-mi... Of course, you can't readily buy or charge one yet, but you don't have the battery problem (at all).

A Tesla model 3 hypermiled like this Mirai got 606 miles [1]. The Mira's normal range is about 400 miles. > you don't have the battery problem (at all). The Mirai still has a small lithium battery like a hybrid since fuel cells cannot put enough instantaneous power (only 128kw and has start up time) for normal driving they need a buffer battery that is recharged by the fuel cell. Since this battery is so small it can…

Post by bryanlarsen » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 4:21 AM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #192

bryanlarsen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LFP batteries in the article have an expected life of 6000 cycles, which in real world usage corresponds to about 750,000 kilometers. (6000 is worst case cycle, which never happens in a car with a proper BMS). You're asking for a battery with an expected life span of 12.5 million kilometers.

750000 is amazing too! How many cycles does a normal car battery do?

Post by adrianN » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 5:36 AM UTC

turtlebits wrote: post #239

iasay wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss the point. Most people don’t buy new cars. Most people buy second hand vehicles. They now risk degraded batteries and a huge incidental cost. My car cost me £5000 second hand. The cheapest EV battery replacement here is £12,500. I could write that car off twice for the price of a battery and still have enough money to go on holiday. When you buy the bottom end of the second hand EV market which is realistica…

EVs aren't for everyone, especially if you have long range requirements. My daily work commute is under 6 miles round trip. That said, 20% degradation after 10 years isn't a huge deal for me. I'm sure in that time, battery replace/refurbishment will be much cheaper. There is a company in Oregan that will replace a 40kwh Leaf pack for $7000 .