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Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

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Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#161

Post by b112 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #141
b112 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://news.hydroquebec.com/en/press-releases/1667/hydro-que... This is just a start, Hydro Quebec will expand production if demand comes.

The entire world is gearing up to produce green Hydrogen in staggering quantities. It won't be used for wheeled vehicles though. https://www.alliedmarketresearch.com/green-hydrogen-market

A prediction is not what will be, and that's all a market projection is.

Just a single government providing grants for h2 refueling infra can dramatically change things.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#162

Post by nl »

MerelyMortal wrote: post #104
nl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't realised until very recently that most hydrogen produced comes from coal: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/explain... Most of the time it isn't a green fuel at all and is just a way to keep mining coal.

Electrolysis powered by nuclear energy seems very clean and green to me. With the added benefit of not requiring an overhaul of the electrical grid to be able to handle everyone charging their cars.

If you are doing electrolysis then solar/wind is a much better option than nuclear.

Much lower up front investment and none of the huge downsides of nuclear.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#163

Post by nl »

flumpmaster wrote: post #116
nl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't realised until very recently that most hydrogen produced comes from coal: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/explain... Most of the time it isn't a green fuel at all and is just a way to keep mining coal.

That is not correct. Globally 75% of hydrogen is produced from Natural Gas: https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen See section on production. The most commonly used process creates a mixture of steam, hydrogen and CO2. The water is condensed and the CO2 removed to purify the hydrogen product. The CO2 is a concentrated stream. This is sometimes captured and sold as a byproduct (eg food grade CO2 for bevera…

The gas based production is no better because of the CO2 emissions of course.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#164

Post by ceejayoz »

iasay wrote: post #53
rightbyte wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 128 miles of range. Which is near useless for the average user Maybe if that is your only car. As a commuter or grocery car it would be fine.

Why would you want a car that can be used only for those tasks leaving you to seek other forms of transport for leisure and family? The main positive factor of vehicle ownership is destination and route flexibility and if you trade that away then the advantage is gone.

We have two combustion cars, a Corolla and an Outback. The Corolla gets everyday use, the Outback goes on long trips or if I need to haul some furniture.

An EV to replace the Corolla would be ideal. Perfect spot for this scenario.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#165

Post by smaudet »

b112 wrote: post #119
smaudet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are putting gasoline vehicles and electric to shame: https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/car-news/article/toyota-mi... Of course, you can't readily buy or charge one yet, but you don't have the battery problem (at all).

http://news.hydroquebec.com/en/press-releases/1667/hydro-que... This is just a start, Hydro Quebec will expand production if demand comes.

I would buy one for my next vehicle (it will be a ways off), except my area will take a while to be covered, with the amount of driving I do I would not need to refill for several months, and I could still take it on cross country road trips without worrying too much about even stopping at a charge/gas station.

As it stands, I will not be buying any EV, you will have a very hard time convincing me otherwise, too many drawbacks to not enough range, ridiculously high charge times, expensive battery repairs, in addition to not being much better than a gasoline vehicle as far as ECO costs.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#166

Post by toomuchtodo »

ericmay wrote: post #80
influxmoment wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very forward thinking move for 2018. I look forward to us all driving Chinese BYD cars at this rate of innovation

We could solve that problem pretty easily by just not relying on cars.

Solving for battery chemistry is cheaper and faster than rebuilding all of America (outside of a few metros where cars aren’t needed) around mass transit and walkability.

Personally, I would love if urban planning was structured in a way so that all new development was anti-car, and redevelopment slowly transitioned away from prioritizing automobiles, but that doesn’t appear to be in the cards.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#167

Post by smaudet »

nl wrote: post #163
flumpmaster wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not correct. Globally 75% of hydrogen is produced from Natural Gas: https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen See section on production. The most commonly used process creates a mixture of steam, hydrogen and CO2. The water is condensed and the CO2 removed to purify the hydrogen product. The CO2 is a concentrated stream. This is sometimes captured and sold as a byproduct (eg food grade CO2 for bevera…

The gas based production is no better because of the CO2 emissions of course.

There is a promising electrolysis route as well now, zero emissions:

https://newatlas.com/energy/hysata-efficient-hydrogen-electr...

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#169

Post by throwaway9870 »

bell-cot wrote: post #67

> Automotive giant Ford is shoring up its battery supply chain — partly by importing lower-cost, iron-based batteries popular in China — as it sprints to increase electric vehicle production. Old geezer's perspective: Back in its heyday, Ford Motor was one of the most vertically integrated (large manufacturing) companies in the world. They owned and operated their own fleet of ore carriers (cargo ships), to haul iron…

Ford bought New Holland back in the 80s. New Holland was very vertically integrated and Ford, after taking the reins, declared that they were going to teach New Holland how to become recession proof by outsourcing as much as possible and pushing the risk onto the suppliers. Yes, there is some logic in that plan, but on the other hand, it comes with a whole other set of risks.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#170

Post by oldjavacoder »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery

"However, an electric vehicle with aluminium batteries has the potential for up to eight times the range of a lithium-ion battery with a significantly lower total weight."

It just needs silver for a catalyst. :-(

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