Live data from Hacker News

Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

axios.com

141–150 of 328 posts

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#141
post #119
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are putting gasoline vehicles and electric to shame: https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/car-news/article/toyota-mi... Of course, you can't readily buy or charge one yet, but you don't have the battery problem (at all).

http://news.hydroquebec.com/en/press-releases/1667/hydro-que... This is just a start, Hydro Quebec will expand production if demand comes.

The entire world is gearing up to produce green Hydrogen in staggering quantities. It won't be used for wheeled vehicles though.

https://www.alliedmarketresearch.com/green-hydrogen-market

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What the heck? Do you somehow only watch the super opinionated stuff on both Fox and CNN, giving you polar opposite trash talk from both sides of the aisle? Lol If anything The first one wasn’t a white supremacist because “he had alot of Mexican friends” and the other isn’t cozying up to a dictator because our gas supply offset wasn’t shifty to Saudi backed oil supplies, not to mention all his work his son has done w…

The comment you replied to was unkind to both sides (appropriately) and you turned it into my team good, your team bad. This is why we can't discuss politics here because it goes tribal and off the rails.

Our relationship with SA is fucked up and that is regardless of party in office.

Parting shot: if you really cared about corrupt nepotism you'd acknowledge the prior son-in-law's self dealing with the SA as well (e.g., a recent $2B "investment"). Let's investigate both sides, eh?

Edit: shitting on Trump in the OP also didn't help (because while true wasn't germane to the corruption/foreign relations).

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love a car with a tiny battery for 99% of the time when I’m just driving locally and the ability to have an extra, large battery that can be slotted in when I want to make a longer trip. With only the short range battery most of the time, my car’s weight is low and efficiency high. Maybe I could keep that battery in my house and use it to store solar electricity most of the time. It seems like it should be possib…

...say like a battery trailer with a CCS socket, and with extra storage as well, for long journeys? Low tech FTW. Smartrail is still a better soln but we have to be realistic here.

I have heard of proof of concept camping trailers that not only have batteries but also motors in the wheels so the can provide extra power when you drive (restoring the range you loose when towing) and also regen braking. Not low tech, but would be really useful https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133124_towing-with-an-...

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#144
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are putting gasoline vehicles and electric to shame: https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/car-news/article/toyota-mi... Of course, you can't readily buy or charge one yet, but you don't have the battery problem (at all).

I really think the push for hydrogen (highly impractical at scale) by the right wing press is part of fossil fuel industry attempts to spread fud around battery evs.

This is true, but hydrogen cars at scale are still more practical than historical fossil fuel approaches.

Luckily we have an even better option available for transport so we can focus green hydrogen on replacing all the other uses of fossil fuels.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla was never serious about replaceable batteries. They could get more tradeable credits for replaceable batteries, so they told everyone they’ll do that, got the credits for the cars that were supposed to have replaceable batteries, and never followed up with the actual tech.

I did recall Tesla wasn’t serious about battery swapping but can’t find any information about getting credits for doing that, let alone just announcing it. Can you back that up?

The statement is worded critical of Tesla, but IIRC there's some truth to it. They engineered the Model S to be battery-swappable, and there was some advantage wrt. the regulatory credits to doing so. Can't find a link, but I remember reading it.

They rolled out this service to a couple of spots in California, which was probably sufficient for the the credit regime, but ended up not expanding the program further and terminating it after a few quarters. The official explanation was that it was not widely used.

https://youtu.be/H5V0vL3nnHY?t=57

There may have been other business reasons. I have no idea what was discussed on the executive level but wouldn't be surprised if they considered some tradeoffs of complexity, costs and customer attractivenes to not be worth it. Honestly, it's very rare that you actually need or strongly prefer to have this kind of service rather than just recharging at 150kW for 15 minutes. So if it adds considerable cost or complexity, I could understand the decision to drop it.

A short time later, they started welding an extra metal shield onto the bottom of the Model S, to act as an extra layer of protection against collisions with highway debris that caused some high-profile battery fires. I had the impression that this precluded battery swap, so at that point the business decision must have been made to not expand the program further.

If the regulatory incentives was key in the decision to do this and then later drop it, that's a fundamental property of incentives to do something that might not be a good idea in isolation.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love a car with a tiny battery for 99% of the time when I’m just driving locally and the ability to have an extra, large battery that can be slotted in when I want to make a longer trip. With only the short range battery most of the time, my car’s weight is low and efficiency high. Maybe I could keep that battery in my house and use it to store solar electricity most of the time. It seems like it should be possib…

> Maybe I could keep that battery in my house and use it to store solar electricity most of the time. That's utopian. These things weigh a ton, you'd need a forklift.

Sure, but there are jacks that can be purchased for home use that can easily lift a ton or two. If this was a thing, the battery would have to self-lift itself into place, or have home-installed battery swap station.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#147

> Automotive giant Ford is shoring up its battery supply chain — partly by importing lower-cost, iron-based batteries popular in China — as it sprints to increase electric vehicle production. Old geezer's perspective: Back in its heyday, Ford Motor was one of the most vertically integrated (large manufacturing) companies in the world. They owned and operated their own fleet of ore carriers (cargo ships), to haul iron…

Offshore outsourcing of everything is as bad of an idea as vertical integration of every single aspect of your business.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#148

> Automotive giant Ford is shoring up its battery supply chain — partly by importing lower-cost, iron-based batteries popular in China — as it sprints to increase electric vehicle production. Old geezer's perspective: Back in its heyday, Ford Motor was one of the most vertically integrated (large manufacturing) companies in the world. They owned and operated their own fleet of ore carriers (cargo ships), to haul iron…

They also grow their own trees for the rubber required to make tires ! Next level !

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#149
post #27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would prefer to see this because the current ability to replace batteries in EVs is crap. I’ve owned enough second hand laptops to know what second hand EV ownership is going to feel like.

Laptop batteries and EV batteries have a completely different performance profile. The data we have suggests that the battery will retain 80% of its maximum capacity for about as long as the rest of the car is expected to survive.

> The data we have suggests that the battery will retain 80% of its maximum capacity for about as long as the rest of the car is expected to survive.

How long is the rest of the car expected to survive?

I rarely do long range driving, and my commute was short for years (a couple miles each way) for about a decade before we switched to work from home a couple years before the pandemic, and I'm not interested in travel so my usage is not going to up much when I retire in a few years. I anticipate a need for at most 100k over the rest of my life, which almost certainly will be less than 25 years.

Would a current EV be likely be able to handle that with just reasonable maintenance?

I'm currently driving a 2006 Honda CR-V that I bought new and could probably reasonably keep driving another 10-15 years. That's what I want out of an EV.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#150
post #13

I'm not sure why we aren't making EVs with small but upgradeable batteries. Like for example a $20k car with a 10kWh "good enough for now" starter battery that can be bought today. Still good enough for 90% of trips and upgradable to 50kWh with additional after market battery modules should the user decide. As simple as upgrading the RAM on an (old) laptop.

I think we should start thinking in battery cargo trailers. When do you want extra range and battery? When you're going on holiday. What do you want apart from extra range when you're going on holiday? Extra storage space! So why not just start selling battery cargo trailers which can provide your main car with extended range when needed? It's also much easier to swap and rent out physically, financially and emotiona…

This makes a lot of sense, except that driving with a trailer isn't very enjoyable. I bet the aerodynamics would suffer too
Post reply on HN