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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Genuine question: is Tesla’s autopilot crashing more often or more severely than human drivers?
To some degree, that doesn't matter . An underlying feature of a competent approach to safety in design is that the design must take maximal ownership of eliminating risk to all people in all scenarios that can be reasonably expected to result from the design. The moment Telsa set expectations by proclaiming it as autopilot, they took the corresponding responsiblity to make sure it did not generate any scenarios whic…
Pretty much this. They could have called it Super Cruise Control or something and I'm pretty sure nobody would have anything to say, because it is expected that cruise control be supervised, but, I think people wouldn't be quite as willing to pay a lot of money for a feature that didn't sound so remarkable.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, as someone that researches ML, this is my major concern. It isn't AGI that has the potential to kill us, it is current ML systems that can't handle OOD data and engineers put it in place because "that's the user's fault." Same reason we have Teslas crashing. AI safety might talk about AGI a lot, but their main area of research is modern systems and concerns over that. OOD data is really hard to deal with FW…
Genuine question: is Tesla’s autopilot crashing more often or more severely than human drivers?
Tesla publishes a Safety Report regarding this.
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
Many, if not all publicized "Autopilot suspected" Tesla crashes were later found to happen because driver accelerated too fast, forgot that break pedal exists and lost control.
That is less possible with Autopilot, as it can't go faster than 90 mph
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#194It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
As in illustration, I'll relay you an actual story that I read from one Russian blogger (who witnessed it himself and I trust him that he did):
The scene is a couchette car in an overnight train between two Russian cities (a very popular mode of transport in Russia). It's late at night, so most people are preparing to sleep or sleeping already, so it is pretty quiet. Except for the two slightly drunk guys in one end of the train, who are engaged in a lively conversation. After a while one woman next to them loses her patience and shouts "you two over there, would you shut up finally? People are trying to sleep here!". To which one of the guys answers, not missing a beat, with innocent indignation in his voice: "And why did you think it's us?!"
That's how this culture works.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A ski lift that breaks legs one day per thousand would never be acceptable. People are injured getting off ski lifts all the time.
Ski lift fatality rate is about 1/10 of cars, with only one death per 700 million miles traveled and average of 0.34 deaths per year. Ski lift is one of the safest modes of transports known to man. It probably saves many lives vs someone walking up the mountain. That is, unlike the chess robot it creates a comparative net decline in risk for achieving the task of climbing a mountain. A wildly overbuilt (for the task)…
Fatality rate from ski lifts may be very, very low. But number of broken limbs per user are probably relatively high compared to other modes of transportation. (Especially I think in small pull-based lifts)
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
> there should be some debate about whether this is even a significant enough incident to require an apology. The robot behaved in an unexpected way which caused injury to a child. An apology is the absolute bare minimum they could do. As a parent, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect event organisers to have put adequate safeguards in place. We don’t need to put kids in front of a bear to teach them about the…
> As a parent, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect event organisers to have put adequate safeguards in place.
Literally everyone thinks that. Who is going to say that they expect event organisers to put inadequate safeguards in place? The issue is that things can go wrong even with adequate safeguards. Life be risky.
> We don’t need to put kids in front of a bear to teach them about the wonders of nature. Likewise, they don’t need to be in the path of a dangerous robot to discover machines.
Attempting to kill kids does seem like a bad strategy. But if you want them to learn about nature, they will actually have to go out into nature. And that'll be a lot more risky than this robot - nature is not safe either.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#197It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
Allow me to suggest, in all seriousness, American government is not so different.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#198This is appalling. There is no world in which an industrial robot like that should be operating next to a child. Their force sensors are not nearly sensitive enough to stop before causing serious injury. Going fast enough, they can absolutely kill you. This just screams negligence to me. Cannot believe they tried to blame it on the child. There are robots, called Cobots, designed specifically for this type of environ…
A robot designed to move chess pieces should never have enough power to break anything. Could be run from as little as 2 AA batteries. This is simply bad engineering.
I think that’s challenging to achieve if you also want the robot to play well under time pressure.
Even if you manage to build an actuator that can grab a piece quickly but can’t break anything, the required rapid movement of the arm still can break things.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, as someone that researches ML, this is my major concern. It isn't AGI that has the potential to kill us, it is current ML systems that can't handle OOD data and engineers put it in place because "that's the user's fault." Same reason we have Teslas crashing. AI safety might talk about AGI a lot, but their main area of research is modern systems and concerns over that. OOD data is really hard to deal with FW…
AGI alignment is a vastly bigger problem. Of course poorly built and deployed ML systems will kill and injure people - but these are tragedies of the kind humanity can endure and overcome and has overcome. Poorly aligned AGI is nothing less than the entire species at stake.
> AGI alignment is a vastly bigger problem
But also far less likely to happen anytime soon. A bigger danger is when someone thinks a machine is sentient or "semi-conscious" (whatever that means) and naively uses it to do tasks it shouldn't.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#200It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
It's the way how wild animals live. Strong eats weak. That's it.
The wilderness of Russia should be apparent to everyone nowadays.