This is not so much different from Teslas crashing.
A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
181–190 of 509 posts
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
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>people sign a disclaimer about the risks, they can not be held responsible. This isn’t adequate in civilized countries. You can’t run an amusement park that severs the limbs of 1% of the participants under the protection of a disclaimer.
You've clearly never heard of Action Park, though not quite 1%.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#183The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.
Are you really going to go for the "think of the children" argument...? Although I do agree with you about having an e-stop.
"Think of the children" when used as an expression refers to the situation in which children are used as an excuse to implement rules which would be otherwise unpalatable. Not every case of protecting kids is a "think of the children" situation.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you consider how Chernobyl was handled it doesn’t seem that far off?
Wrong country, wrong establishment. Apparently a lot of you dont know the difference between USSR, Russia and Ukraine. Stay safe out there.
In fact, it's the same country and the same establishment. While Chernobyl is currently, as everybody knows, Ukrainian territory - at the time it was the territory of the USSR, and the dominating culture was Soviet - which despite being theoretically "internationalist" actually meant "Russian Imperial". People who made decisions there may have been born anywhere, but they all spoke Russian, and they all looked to Moscow for authority. And the establishment largely did not change in Russia since then - while some people went away, naturally or forcefully, and some new people came in, the new people now in Russia were largely parts of the same establishment as in the USSR - they just went up a number of rungs on the ladder when the top elites had to retire. The classic case is Putin - who is ex-KGB - but if you look at his team, you'll see most of them have roots in the old establishment or have been brought in by the people from the old establishment. In contrast to Ukraine, where old elites largely lost power (new ones are far from perfect either, but that's a topic for another day) and have been replaced, in Russia this replacement never really happened - and that may be a good key to why what is happening now is happening.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#185It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
This videogame review from a YouTube channel called Warlockracy is actually also a really interesting perspective on at least some aspects of Russian subcultures and their prominence, I found it a surprisingly insightful social commentary wrapped up in an entertaining vid.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_PiXLVaJ8 (~45mins)
The second video is more serious but also rather interesting (clips from it became very popular at the beginning of the Russian invasion into Ukraine). It is a lecture from a Finnish University Professor whom spent most of his career in Intelligence specializing in Russian relations and now teaches intelligence and security. He talks extensively about the corruption hierarchies in Russia as well as Putin and Propaganda, well worth a watch (and more recent videos have been released since found on the same channel).
2. https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw (~60mins)
Operating under the assumption that the video isn't misrepresenting the cultural aspects of Russia I think we would both be surprised at how "cartoonish" things can be.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, as someone that researches ML, this is my major concern. It isn't AGI that has the potential to kill us, it is current ML systems that can't handle OOD data and engineers put it in place because "that's the user's fault." Same reason we have Teslas crashing. AI safety might talk about AGI a lot, but their main area of research is modern systems and concerns over that. OOD data is really hard to deal with FW…
Genuine question: is Tesla’s autopilot crashing more often or more severely than human drivers?
To some degree, that doesn't matter. An underlying feature of a competent approach to safety in design is that the design must take maximal ownership of eliminating risk to all people in all scenarios that can be reasonably expected to result from the design.
The moment Telsa set expectations by proclaiming it as autopilot, they took the corresponding responsiblity to make sure it did not generate any scenarios which were unsafe. The moment they implemented features that allowed the attention of drivers to drift more than standard driving, they also took responsibility to make sure that the drifting attention of drivers did not place the system in an unsafe state.
This same issue applies to touch-screen interfaces in modern cars. Drivers could always stare down at their radio when there were tactile knobs and dials, but touch-screen interfaces now expect that because they've eliminated tactile feedback. Telling drivers 'just don't look down' misses the point, because it's the responisbility of the car manufacturer to not create a system where that added safety risk is not controlled appropriately.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#187The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.
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> there should be some debate about whether this is even a significant enough incident to require an apology.
The robot behaved in an unexpected way which caused injury to a child. An apology is the absolute bare minimum they could do.
As a parent, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect event organisers to have put adequate safeguards in place.
We don’t need to put kids in front of a bear to teach them about the wonders of nature. Likewise, they don’t need to be in the path of a dangerous robot to discover machines.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#188It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
Well, it is reflected in their position about Ukraine.
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#189It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-zorbing-accident-father-ki...
I think it's true that health and safety are treated very differently there.
The craziest part of the attached link is the quote "it's gone in the wrong direction again".
Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent
#190This is appalling. There is no world in which an industrial robot like that should be operating next to a child. Their force sensors are not nearly sensitive enough to stop before causing serious injury. Going fast enough, they can absolutely kill you. This just screams negligence to me. Cannot believe they tried to blame it on the child. There are robots, called Cobots, designed specifically for this type of environ…
A robot designed to move chess pieces should never have enough power to break anything. Could be run from as little as 2 AA batteries. This is simply bad engineering.