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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#121

Post by hosh »

birdyrooster wrote: post #96
smsm42 wrote: post #90

It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…

Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.

That jives with what I heard and the English translated Russian pop literature I have read.

Besides, caveat venditor is more of an American thing, with most of the world being caveat emptor.

Having said all of that, I don't think robotics and AI is the kind of thing we "move fast and break things".

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#122

Post by pc86 »

birdyrooster wrote: post #96
smsm42 wrote: post #90

It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be take…

Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.

I'm sure there are plenty who aren't, but these people in the Chess Federation certainly seem to be.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#123

Post by ordu »

charcircuit wrote: post #80
carbadtraingood wrote: post #14

The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.

>a kid made a reasonable kid movement What do you mean? There's no reasonable time where you and your opponent are touching the pieces at the same time. Nor is there a reasonable time where you reach for the same piece.

Is it normal in chess to break fingers of an opponent who breaks rules? I think not. If it was not a robot but a human being he would be considered guilty. Yeah, boy broke chess rules, and what? He probably should be punished by losing chess points or something, but not by the means of breaking fingers. But the human who broke fingers of his opponent would be disqualified from chess for a life and would face charges. It is robot, it cannot be guilty, so someone else is. Who is? His creators? Or organizers of the event? Or parents of the kid who allowed him to go to face the robot? Some adults are guilty, not the boy.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#124

Post by numpad0 »

kstenerud wrote: post #33
Nextgrid wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The robot is a standard industrial robot arm that happens to be used for chess - it it was not made to be a chess robot. This is absolutely overkill for chess even just from a cost perspective so you wouldn't build something like this if you actually were building a chess robot. The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans. There migh…

Which leads to the next question: WHY is such a dangerous robot being used to play chess against people?

Human-safe “collaborative robot” types are like iMac with VESA mounts, they’re niche product not readily and cheaply available.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#125

Post by seltzered_ »

Nextgrid wrote: post #30
kstenerud wrote: post #22

One has to wonder why the hell they'd make a chess robot with a grip so strong that it takes the concerted effort of two adults to pry it loose. And blaming it on the kid was real classy.

The robot is a standard industrial robot arm that happens to be used for chess - it it was not made to be a chess robot. This is absolutely overkill for chess even just from a cost perspective so you wouldn't build something like this if you actually were building a chess robot. The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans. There migh…

Beyond pressure settings, you can also design the robot to just be 'soft' in the first place: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_robotics

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#127

Post by usefulcat »

userbinator wrote: post #110
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are in fact times when we need to think about children. If we don't, humanity won't have much of a future.

Quite the contrary, I think. Society has become "soft", for lack of better words. If we had been so risk-averse centuries ago, the industrial revolution would have never happened.

That sort of argument might work well for a time when slavery was a recent memory and children frequently worked in factories instead of going to school. That doesn't mean it works equally well for the present day, or for the kind of future most of us would probably prefer.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#128

Post by Wowfunhappy »

userbinator wrote: post #110
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are in fact times when we need to think about children. If we don't, humanity won't have much of a future.

Quite the contrary, I think. Society has become "soft", for lack of better words. If we had been so risk-averse centuries ago, the industrial revolution would have never happened.

I meant it literally. It's difficult to raise children without thinking about them, and if we don't raise any children...

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#129

Post by justsomehnguy »

kstenerud wrote: post #33
Nextgrid wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The robot is a standard industrial robot arm that happens to be used for chess - it it was not made to be a chess robot. This is absolutely overkill for chess even just from a cost perspective so you wouldn't build something like this if you actually were building a chess robot. The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans. There migh…

Which leads to the next question: WHY is such a dangerous robot being used to play chess against people?

Oh come on, we do this since we could do it:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/robot-arm-deve...

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#130

Post by cowtools »

charcircuit wrote: post #86
krallja wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seven-year-old boys are known for always doing things that are reasonable, and never doing anything unreasonable.

I agree especially since he "is among the top 30 chess players in Moscow under the age of nine."

It does not excuse such a reckless use of industrial equipment around people without appropriate failsafes.

A robotic arm like this not a toy, is a deadly machine with a lot of force and a lot of mass. If you were standing next to it for some reason it could unexpectedly swing around and break your neck in an instant. Engineers should be careful to design such systems with failsafes that account for any action the operator might take.

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