Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#171

Post by saxonww » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #131

saxonww wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen. I'm generally in favor of posting salary ranges. I like to know how the company values the positions they are hiring for, and I don't really want to talk to a recruiter at all if it's not going to be a salary match, so I like the idea of being able to screen better as a candidate. But now…

That's because recruiters exploit lack of transparency to determine if you're worth their time and sucker you into lowballing yourself.

Yeah I figure that happens. I declined to answer with the role I have now, and it worked out :shrug:. Not everyone is trying to screw you.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#172

Post by KronisLV » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

pklausler wrote: post #111

altdataseller wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, getting job statistics from Linkedin is a bad idea simply because Linkedin don’t track “unique” jobs.

distinct*

Unique for the constraint, distinct for the select. :)

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#173

Post by FalconSensei » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

saxonww wrote: post #66

donatj wrote: post #5

> No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You can just ask at the end of the first interview. I've never had a problem doing so.

Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen. I'm generally in favor of posting salary ranges. I like to know how the company values the positions they are hiring for, and I don't really want to talk to a recruiter at all if it's not going to be a salary match, so I like the idea of being able to screen better as a candidate. But now…

> Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen.

So, if your expectations are below what they are willing to pay, they'll just offer your less?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#174

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #139

srvmshr wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy. That should incentivize employers to be advertising compensation. I am probably understanding your answer wrong. Could you please elaborate?

The evidence points to the assumption of a shortage being wrong. By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. From what I understand about Japan, even in the tech sector, the quality of life for labor sellers is pretty bad with long hours and not much room for high pay. I imagine if Japanese tech workers has the option of working for employers with compensation off…

Even with an advantage, it takes a concerted effort to push for culture change. Things can get by on inertia for a long time.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#175

Post by coding123 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

Victerius wrote: post #112

Tao3300 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, I have a minimum salary for which I will move giant hunks of manure with my bare hands and love it so much I'll sing arias about it while I do so. It's a really big number, but I assure you it exists.

I'll bite. Would you take the job for $300 000?

I would do that for $1000 per hour.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#176

Post by godelski » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

On the [Who's Hiring] threads we used to upvote those that listed salary and downvoted those that didn't to signal to companies that this is vital information (it saves everyone time). Is this something we should start doing again? We could also put this in the template.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#177

Post by joshstrange » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. I one interviewed for a local place and at the very start, first interview, I asked for the salary range and was told "We are very flexible". Against my better judgement I went ahead and did the rest of the interview and later that night they sent me an offer... for ~$30K under what I was making. I emailed them back and told them the number I was looking for and they effectively said "Oh, well we aren't /that/ flexible".

Thankfully this was only 1 interview but I can't imagine going through multiple rounds only to find the pay isn't going to work. There are jobs I pass over because my first thought is "Ehh, I bet that place/job/position doesn't pay well" but I have no way of knowing. I have a limited amount of time I'm willing to spend looking for a new job and going through multiple full interview processes is not high on my list of things I want to do. I absolutely hate having to take that "leap of faith" when starting an interview process. It's absurd that we don't demand that companies post what they are willing to pay.

Also, let's not kid ourselves. There is 1 and only 1 reason why companies don't post this and it's greed. Period, end of sentence. There is no other reason. It's either because they don't want internal people to know what they are hiring at and/or because they want to try to get a developer for the lowest price possible.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#178

Post by cultofmetatron » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

srvmshr wrote: post #42

donatj wrote: post #5

> No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You can just ask at the end of the first interview. I've never had a problem doing so.

Maybe its a cultural thing, but doing that in a Japanese/Asian setup is a big red flag - to the point my recruiter wife has to warn foreign nationals they may not hear back from the company anymore. Salary negotiation is kept at the very last step. Personally I feel it is such a waste of time to discover if the salary doesn't meet your expectations after 3-5 rounds of song & dance.

given the sterotype of the overworked salary man, its probably a red flag in that the red flag is "expects to be treated like a human being."

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#179

Post by kokanator » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

bilsbie wrote: post #116

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

Keep in mind it’s really easy to trick yourself into believing the salaries you’re offering are aggressive. I bet 80% of companies would say they have above average salaries.

All our salaries are based upon most recent data assembled by market across the country and, in the case of this round of hiring, +10% to deal with the current inflation conditions.

So, I am not just 'saying'. I have data. Careful research goes into making sure our employees are paid in pace or exceeding the market.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#180

Post by websap » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

Listing salary ranges is bad for employees because it limits upside from negotiation. Like everything it's just a trade-off between capping your downside and limiting your upside.