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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#151

Post by wussboy »

lucasmullens wrote: post #114
codegeek wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't ask. Tell. "Hey just to ensure that we are on the same page, I am ideally looking for a minimum of $xyz/year. Is that in the range for this role ?". Then pause and wait for their response.

That's one quick way to get exactly a salary of $xyz, and with the word "ideally" in there you're admitting you'd go slightly lower.

That’s why you make sure your minimum amount is something you would actually consider. Otherwise you’re only screwing yourself.

On the other hand, giving a range and getting offered the bottom (which we already agreed is sufficient, otherwise why is it your bottom?) gives you the opportunity to negotiate non salary terms like health care, holiday, work from home, etc.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#153

Post by RHSeeger »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

> If your primary reason for responding to an ad is based upon salary you are not going to be happy where you work.

Salary can be both a filter and a sorter.

- I won't apply to a job that pays less than I need to support the life style I want; no other factor can overcome that.

- I am more likely to apply for a job that pays more than a different job, but other things are also part of that sort.

It is entirely possible for salary to be an important part of what is considered when deciding on a job, even a deciding factor, without it being the only thing or even the primary thing.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#154

Post by ipaddr »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #52
kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

>Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. You're conflating multiple things here. People aren't focusing on money because it's the most important part. They focus on money because it's one of the few things that's relatively easy to make tangible ahead of time. Similar goes for things like remote/hybrid, secondary benefits, etc. Many elements on that list, while important, are incr…

Getting that good work life balance issue settled usually takes 2 or 3 rounds to pry some useful info out.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#155

Post by BlargMcLarg »

upupandup wrote: post #136
gsibble wrote: post #75

My former employer had a lot of trouble hiring and getting applicants even though we paid very high wages. They asked for my help. Naturally, they hadn't posted the salary range. I changed up the listing to talk about what we provided as a company for the employee and why we were such a great place to work and included our high salaries. We immediately had trouble keeping up with the number of applicants. If you pay…

In Canada, there is this weird faux pas where asking for market rate gets you flagged for a position that requires in reality less than 4 years of experience require significantly more as it is very much still a employer's market. (4 year experience job requires now 8~10 year exp without the salary to reflect this) I can see significant strains in hiring because of this cultural backward thinking. If you don't list y…

Not unique to Canada at all, FWIW. Demanding top level skills while paying market rate at best has been going on for years now. Employers just don't want to change, and a lot of candidates are still accepting the circumstances.

Especially noticeable with the whole cloud + microservices + event queue craze, since very few companies do anything with this yet, so few people actually accrue the knowledge they require, and most projects where the benefits of these shine are not projects individuals will tend to pick up.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#156

Post by MR4D »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

> Meaning, if you are looking for a place you will enjoy working, do not start with salary.

I get where you are coming from, but at least here in Texas, a job with the title “Project Manager” can be a low-end job paying 50k to a senior position paying 250k or more. Salary is often the only way to tell them apart because the wording that recruiters use are typically identical (or very close to it).

Not sure if this is common or uncommon, but I wanted to share that sometimes these things are important for other reasons.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#157

Post by ThePadawan »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #107
ThePadawan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally find that 90% of the responses I get to salary requests are: "I would love to chat to you on the phone about this on the phone with you!" "How dare you ask me that, you should be thankful for me even writing to you with this incredibly vague offer in the first place." I tried responding to ~20 recruiters with a copy-pasted question about salary, and none responded with anything even close to a salary ran…

There are a few that are worth dealing with, and a large number that aren't. When you stumble into the few, even if you aren't looking, take note of who they are. You may want them later.

I'm glad to hear it.

I'll keep watching out for the first.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#159

Post by corrral »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between.

I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare. If you somehow manage to present as exactly the perfect place to work, I might contact you—to ask what the salary range is, and if you won't say up-front, I'm out.

It takes exactly one time sitting through interviews, having everyone be super excited about hiring you, then naming a totally normal rate when they ask what salary you're looking for, and watching everyone's faces turn green, to never, ever waste time doing that again. I've had mine already.

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