Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO, this hypothesis doesn't pass the smell test. One of the defining qualities of clinical depression is that personal success in life does not obviate the symptoms; there are many widely know examples of beloved and successful people being unable to overcome the burden of crushing depression.
Well, first of all, I didn't say it was the only cause for depression; it's a condition that comes in lots of different flavors and this is only one. Second, to elaborate a bit more, having to constantly manage your brain in order to get it to do what you need can be exhausting. Any success you achieve feels like it's extremely tenuous, and I'd say most AD(H)D people have had an experience of doing well for a while a…
“No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
571–580 of 625 posts
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#572Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would recommend reading some history books before saying these are depressing circumstances.
Just because some people have suffered through worse doesn't mean that you can use that to invalidate someone else's suffering.
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Please don't post comments like that or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161488 This is the one I was referring to. I’ll admit that the first one you linked was not productive, but I’m reasonably sure you’re taking a less charitable interpretation of this one in light of that. As far as what makes “everything” worse, the prevalence of attitudes like those I was challenging are the reason I almost died without…
> But if they’re politely stated, no harm no foul? That's not at all how we moderate HN. But IIRC (it's been a few hours since I've read the thread) your comments put an extreme personal skew on the comments you were taking offense at and then breaking the rules in reply to. It's natural and understandable that this happens sometimes on topics where you feel strongly (I don't mean you personally, but any of us). Howe…
I sincerely do not think it is an “extreme personal skew” to reject any perspective which would either casually or gladly leave me dead, nor that there’s any reasonable assessment which would arrive at that conclusion. ”I reject perspectives which render me dead” is a very middle of the road personal skew. It’s a personal skew which would be extreme in absence. It’s the kind of personal skew which alarms people that something is wrong.
If you think it’s “extreme”, because the kind of conversation you want to encourage here is “light”, then you ought to know that the kinds of “light” comments I routinely get here—about medication which means the difference between crippling anxiety that made life not worth living, and about a diagnosis which made changing that accessible to me—those comments don’t just vanish because they get moderated. They wouldn’t just vanish if I didn’t have “show dead” in my settings. I seldom see the moderation until after people have laughingly dismissed anything about my experience, they vanish after my reality has been not just questioned but lightheadedly treated as a butt of a joke.
It isn’t just about “the internet” being “wrong”. Discussions that happen anywhere can lead to people making irreversible decisions. “The internet” isn’t some abstract thing, it’s real human beings interacting as quickly as requests are processed.
My personal experience isn’t unusual. Other people will encounter comments like I’ve received and some of them will be discouraged. Some of the consequences of that will be dead humans who wanted to be alive. Pushing back against that isn’t just personal to me. It’s my way of hoping that other people who experience what I have stay alive.
If that’s “breaking the rules”, fucking ban me because I want no part of it.
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#575I have a theory which I can’t substantiate, just anecdotes and conversations I had throughout the years. But, I’m convinced a lot of depression/anxiety stems from thinking too much and that in turn is caused by an ever complex word with looser and looser guidelines or norms. I’m not making judgements weather this is necessarily good or bad but rather observing. In the past, even as recent as the 50s but certainly bef…
A primary example in the early parts of the book are anglo settlers who joined native american tribes either voluntarily or by force. They almost universally preferred their new lifestyle and if brought back into white society would frequently try to escape. The reverse pretty much never happened.
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn't people in the olden days also see the castles and mansions of the rich on a daily basis?
Daily I very much doubt because it’s not like most people were commuting to work. Would you sometimes see them, sure, but people also had a belief system that would have done more to justify the social order, and it would probably be limited to provincial elites for most.
I guess people in towns would see wealthy people often, but people in remote farms and villages wouldn't.
I'm not sure exactly what wealth is being rubbed in my face today. News about rich people? I would assume there would also be news and gossip about rich people back then too.
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a friend that's convinced that her ADHD 'causes depression' because her brain does not produce 'enough dopamine'. I'm noticing more and more among my peers a mythology around brain chemicals that's about as accurate as the four humors but with a scientific-sounding veneer. All brain function (and thus all bodily function, because the brain is the whole person /s) can be traced back to the presence or absence o…
I think ADHD causes depression because you get constant negative feedback from (many) teachers & bosses.
https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sertraline suplementation wiped out depression almost completely from my system within two months. I had been depressed earlier for half a decade. Its been nearly 8 years since I took sertraline (stopped within 3 months) and I haven't had a depressive episode since.
Was your ailment caused by events ? or something that creeped up invisibly ? I'm often worried about neurochemical solutions if some part of your brain is still associating events/memories/ideas with pain.
Culture shock, being alone in a new country, seasonal affective disorder (I come from a warm tropical country), being in a long distance relationship - they all likely contributed.
I also made some pretty bad career moves immediately afterwards, which likely didn’t help.
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#579Yeah, but thats hardly news, we have known that for decades. Otherwise direct serotonin releasers would be the most useful ADs. But these mostly give people nausea and serotonin syndrome. ADs work mostly by being FIASMAs, reducing inflammation and oxidative stress, increasing neurogenesis and neuroplasticity, increasing the activity of other monoaminergic systems, and the serotonergic portion is mostly explained by d…
Yes, but people are still being told by their psychiatrists that depression is caused by low serotonin levels as if it were an objective fact. Seeing this happen made me lose a lot of trust in the medical profession. Is it like this for all illnesses or just mental ones?
The human body is incredibly complex and we have quite limited tools to study it, so we are bound to arrive at wrong conclusions. That by itself is to be expected, but what does really worry me is this missing knowledge updating mechanism. It can take decades for quite a substantial update on what we thought we knew to trickle down from academia to practicing medical professionals.
At this point, if you have any kind of scientific literacy, it might be a good idea to verify whatever your doctor claims.
Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what part of what I said you disagree with. Nothing in the NICE guidelines explains how ECT works - because like the rest of the world NICE does not know. Once odd aspect with ECT is that it seems to transiently improve parkinson's, again no one knows why.
I was disagreeing specifically with this bit: > electroconvulsive therapy which has proven time and again to be the most effective treatment for depression Switch "the most" for "an" and we agree I think.
No ECT is most certainly the most efficacious treatment for depression we have.
Talking therapies have a respone rate in depression of circa 40% [0], probably just slightly higher for antidepressants up to about 50% and faster [1], ECT respone rate is well over than even for those with treatment resistance but as high as 90% [2]. Vitally, the reposnse to ECT is fast and is often under 10 days.
The fact that ECT is burdensome, limited in availability and stigmatizing (which is why it's got so much legislative structure around it) is not relevant for it's efficacy.
This is spelled out relatively well in the UK's Royal College of Psychiatry statement on ECT [3]
> ECT IS A FIRST-LINE TREATMENT FOR PATIENTS ... where a rapid definitive response for the emergency treatment of depression is needed
This is because it works quickly and reliably to treat depression.
[0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acps.13335
[1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/070674371005500...
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3650296/
[3] https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/about-us/who-w...