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Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

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Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#391
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the extreme right-wing is building themselves up to begin politicide. One can only hope; though it might have terrible consequences, like the republican's mask slipping more than it already has, leading to more violence. > the conservatives who gain control in 2022 will grind the federal government to a halt with hearings and procedural moves that's why I'm hoping the Jan 6th folks actually get Trump in prison, to…

Not sure from your comment if you understood that policide is like homicide or infanticide, not suicide. It's a wonk term about destroying a political party or system. Politicide is like genocide, except you target only members of a specific party, like how the Trotskyists were killed by Stalin, or what Pinochet did to Allende's party in Chile. I haven't read this anywhere, but I assume that one usually follows the o…

I understood it as self-inflicted, self-attacking policide, i.e. the (beginning of the) end of the conservative party in the US? If so, yay! .. well, yay-ish, cos what comes after? A party less inclined to be the "party of no"? A party less inclined to be the poster child of "the cruelty is the point"?

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution is strong because of the robustness of the structure it specifies via checks and balances, not because people pledge an oath. I also don't think it's obvious that the US would go to war to preserve the union.

What i meant by "oath to the constitution" is the US military doesn't pledge allegiance to an administration or ideology or region. Its only purpose is to uphold the constitution of the United States of America. That's why the military operates the same no matter which political party is in power. At the end of the day, its only purpose is to defend the constitution. If the US didn't goto war to preserve the union th…

> There is no provision in the constitution laying out

Sure there is. It is called the amendment process, and requires a supermajority vote.

Unless, you are going to claim that using the amendment process, officially, as laid out in the constitution is some treasonous act, that the military would stop.

(Funnily enough, I have see people make this silly argument! That it is unconstitutional to use the official constitutional amendment process, and is treason!)

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#393
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure from your comment if you understood that policide is like homicide or infanticide, not suicide. It's a wonk term about destroying a political party or system. Politicide is like genocide, except you target only members of a specific party, like how the Trotskyists were killed by Stalin, or what Pinochet did to Allende's party in Chile. I haven't read this anywhere, but I assume that one usually follows the o…

I understood it as self-inflicted, self-attacking policide, i.e. the (beginning of the) end of the conservative party in the US? If so, yay! .. well, yay-ish, cos what comes after? A party less inclined to be the "party of no"? A party less inclined to be the poster child of "the cruelty is the point"?

No, my point is that the rhetoric from Republican office holders and candidates such as calling Democrats "pedophiles", "groomers", "satanists", "animals", etc. are a form of dehumanization in preparation for suppressing and then killing Democrats in large numbers. For real. They've even posted anime videos of killing other members of Congress [1]. This is common in all authoritarian takeovers.

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/us/politics/gosar-violent...

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#394
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood it as self-inflicted, self-attacking policide, i.e. the (beginning of the) end of the conservative party in the US? If so, yay! .. well, yay-ish, cos what comes after? A party less inclined to be the "party of no"? A party less inclined to be the poster child of "the cruelty is the point"?

No, my point is that the rhetoric from Republican office holders and candidates such as calling Democrats "pedophiles", "groomers", "satanists", "animals", etc. are a form of dehumanization in preparation for suppressing and then killing Democrats in large numbers. For real. They've even posted anime videos of killing other members of Congress [1]. This is common in all authoritarian takeovers. 1. https://www.nytimes…

Oh, Yes. That. Let's NOT go there.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#395
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the extreme right-wing is building themselves up to begin politicide. One can only hope; though it might have terrible consequences, like the republican's mask slipping more than it already has, leading to more violence. > the conservatives who gain control in 2022 will grind the federal government to a halt with hearings and procedural moves that's why I'm hoping the Jan 6th folks actually get Trump in prison, to…

Not sure from your comment if you understood that policide is like homicide or infanticide, not suicide. It's a wonk term about destroying a political party or system. Politicide is like genocide, except you target only members of a specific party, like how the Trotskyists were killed by Stalin, or what Pinochet did to Allende's party in Chile. I haven't read this anywhere, but I assume that one usually follows the o…

> Not sure from your comment if you understood that policide is like homicide or infanticide, not suicide. It’s a wonk term about destroying a political party or system.

“Policide” (and, confusingly for the distinction you are drawing, with near-equal frequency “politicide”) is used to refer to the analogy of “genocide” as understood in internation law where the target, rather than a people as a people is a political entity (almost exclusively in the examples I can find a polity, whether a sovereign state or some less polity, not a political faction or party.)

> Politicide is like genocide, except you target only members of a specific party

This is confusing (even leaving aside the problem that “politicide” is also a synonym for “policide” and is also used as a portmanteau of “political suicide”, giving it three distinct definitions in the same general domain) because you are using “genocide” in the sense of the frequently encountered mistakenly-narrow definition, and not the sense in which it is used in international law, to wit, to mean extermination of the members of a people rather than attempts to destroy the people as a people. But, yes, politicide has this sense with regard to extermination of members of a political faction, but it is not particular analogous to genocide.

> I haven’t read this anywhere, but I assume that one usually follows the other.

“Policide” doesn’t seem to generally be used when the target is a political faction, but if it were, politicide (in the relevant sense) would be an extreme method of policide, not something that follows it (a successful policide would make politicide superfluous, as there would be no one to target, the group no longer existing as a group and thus not having members to exterminate.)

One would imagine that the usual course would be escalation to politicide when other means of policide failed, though there are certainly instances where its pretty much zero to politicide.

(As far as the GOP goes, I think policide/politicide of a particular opposing faction isn’t necessarily wrong as a description of part of what they are headed toward, but misses the point. What I think they are headed for, unless saner heads within the party or defeat and replacement of it as a major party change the course, is an Christian Right American quasi-capitalist corporatist version of the Cultural Revolution, suppressing, violently where necessary, anything seen as ideological dissent from a particular authoritarian ideological vision.)

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grossman devotes almost an entire page to the history of controversy over Marshall's results in the Notes of "On Killing"*, p. 336 (Section 1: Killing and the Existence of Resistance") . IOW Grossman clearly acknowledges the debate and welcomes more research.

So out of 400 pages, Grossman only devotes part of one page to the fact that the entire basis of the book is probably fraudulent? That doesn’t seem very reassuring.

Obviously you and Grossman disagree.

For those still reading, the controversial aspects that grandmczeb speaks of (and which Grossman has addressed) is discussed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.L.A._Marshall#Controversies

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Killing by Dave Grossman explores the research backing up your friend's assertion in depth. I highly recommend that book to anyone whose interest is piqued by your comment.

The core research that "On Killing" was based on (S.L.A. Marshall’s "ratio of fire") was probably fabricated[1]. I'd treat any claims in the book with a lot of skepticism. [1] From https://www.gwern.net/docs/history/s-l-a-marshall/1988-spill... : > His surviving field notebooks show no signs of statistical compilations that would have been necessary to deduce a ratio as precise as Marshall reported later in "Men Agai…

[deleted]

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure from your comment if you understood that policide is like homicide or infanticide, not suicide. It's a wonk term about destroying a political party or system. Politicide is like genocide, except you target only members of a specific party, like how the Trotskyists were killed by Stalin, or what Pinochet did to Allende's party in Chile. I haven't read this anywhere, but I assume that one usually follows the o…

> Not sure from your comment if you understood that policide is like homicide or infanticide, not suicide. It’s a wonk term about destroying a political party or system. “Policide” (and, confusingly for the distinction you are drawing, with near-equal frequency “politicide”) is used to refer to the analogy of “genocide” as understood in internation law where the target, rather than a people as a people is a political…

You're right, it's confusing. I think I probably shouldn't have used either word, as it's sort of besides the point. I think we can both agree that killing people because of their politics is a bad thing.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What i meant by "oath to the constitution" is the US military doesn't pledge allegiance to an administration or ideology or region. Its only purpose is to uphold the constitution of the United States of America. That's why the military operates the same no matter which political party is in power. At the end of the day, its only purpose is to defend the constitution. If the US didn't goto war to preserve the union th…

> There is no provision in the constitution laying out Sure there is. It is called the amendment process, and requires a supermajority vote. Unless, you are going to claim that using the amendment process, officially, as laid out in the constitution is some treasonous act, that the military would stop. (Funnily enough, I have see people make this silly argument! That it is unconstitutional to use the official constit…

I mean the tenth amendment would imply the decision to secede is up to the states. There's no prohibition on secession in the constitution and I think it was evidence to the states when they formed a union that their union was voluntary, not coerced. IMO the decision to block secession was a treasonous and seditious act by Lincoln, and he has a lot of blood on his hands.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#400

Source is apparently a preprint (that is, not peer-reviewed) uploaded here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.15.22277693v... > Participants: Cross-sectional nationwide survey conducted May 13 to June 2, 2022; participants were adult members of the Ipsos KnowledgePanel. 8,620 respondents, but I don't see how they were recruited or how potential bias was accounted for. Given how weird some of the interne…

News are in crisis and try to make more and more sensation articles like this.

If creating parallel world is new normal for journalists then loosing trust of public in news is natural.

I hope that manipulation and government propaganda pushed in news will be naturally eliminated. The question is, how far they will go to keep our attention.

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