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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#611

Post by sfe22 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #578
sfe22 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> It is monopolistic regulation, as in the people of Europe do not have a choice on another regulation, or no regulation if it doesn't suit them. It affects everyone and can severely harm ones freedom of choice in that area. What? They have a choice in whom they vote for. Or you mean that all legislation is "monopolistic"?

Voting for a ruler isn’t really the same as choosing what regulations and standards work for you. First you only have two or three possible rulers to select from. Second, they rarely change, for example every few years or decades sometimes. Third, even if you favorite ruler is eventually in power, you still don’t control their thinking or actions.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#612

Post by tgv »

makeitdouble wrote: post #319
tgv wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> User any browser and browser engine and choose to make it default Hello, Alphabet world domination. They finally get the chance to get rid of that pesky Safari. Next stop: obligatory sign-in for using a service.

If that’s really how it rolls out, doesn’t it also mean that Safari wasn’t viable on itself and nobody wanted to use it in the first place ? Apple is no underdog anymore, if their browser couldn‘t compete on its own merit I won’t be crying a river over it. Firefox, while mired with its own problems, is another story; but I don’t see Mozilla losing from this decision.

That’s not how it work, is it? You can trick people into installing Chrome, and once that’s done, they won’t switch back, unless Apple tries to trick them. I can already hear the outcry when that happens.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#613

Post by nuker »

justapassenger wrote: post #412
akersten wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm honestly shocked at how welcomed the concept of "the government is telling developers that they must make their product less secure and streamlined" is here... This will not bring the interoperability utopia many believe, unless you mean 8 different app updaters bogging down your phone because now there's "competition" and the DrainMyBattery Store only charges 15% fees so it's the only place you can get Coo…

Yeah, and that unsecured Linux is destroying the world! It’s not about making products less secure. That’s what apple makes you wanna think. It’s about giving customers choice. They can stay in Apple ecosystem (I will for example). Or they can not. Companies like Apple will have to work much harder now, to give both users and developers enough value to justify being locked in.

> They can stay in Apple ecosystem

Nope, Adobe will make sure all its apps require Adobe App Store. Same for Facebook with Whatsapp. No more stupid Apple store restrictions, yay!!

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#614

Post by nuker »

Apocryphon wrote: post #490
izacus wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality none of that will happen. The magical rockstar engineers of Apple will listen for their best in the world UX and handcraft artisanal UI that will respectfully explain users what causes the popup.

Not to mention use plenty of dark patterns to steer them away from it. Not to mention the vast majority of users will not bother to deal with alternative app stores when the vast overwhelming majority of existing apps will remain on the official App Store.

> when the vast overwhelming majority of existing apps will remain on the official App Store.

Oh my sweet summer child! Lol

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#615

Post by ThatPlayer »

losvedir wrote: post #143

I'm sort of surprised at the positive tone here. Sure, it's nice for non-technical people to enumerate a lot of nice to haves, but just asserting something doesn't make it true or possible. As one example, making "core messaging functionality interoperable". How exactly does that work with end-to-end encryption? I suppose we'd need some sort of open system and protocol for all the tricky key sharing stuff? That would…

I like Matrix's write-up on it: https://matrix.org/blog/2022/03/25/interoperability-without-...

Also there's a line in the final full act:

>The level of security, including the end-to-end encryption, where applicable, that the gatekeeper provides to its own end users shall be preserved across the interoperable services

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#616

Post by ilaksh »

Vespasian wrote: post #453
ilaksh wrote: post #90

What's the plan for enforcing it? Did the United States sign off on it? In my opinion they need the US buy-in, and there actually need to be criminal penalties enforced against top executives (jail time) and the other executives need to see it happen. Unless they do that stuff it seems like they may really try to ignore and delay and do the absolute minimum effort.

If it comes so far (which I really doubt) as them simply ignoring it, their European Operations can be fined (directly through their bank accounts if need be) or their European employees can be jailed. They can also be disallowed to do business with European consumers and companies. In short: "The fines will continue until compliance improves. Get in line or get out of the market". They don't have much political leve…

They won't simply ignore it, but they will do the minimum amount they can possibly get away with, which will amount to effectively ignoring it.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#617

Post by withinboredom »

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #610
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

I think six months is a pretty unreasonable time frame for Apple. While the security concerns around this sort of thing are often overblown, Apple will need to rework their security model for the iPhone. If there is an API surface between the OS and the App Store, they may need to rework it since it's not been designed with third party stores in mind.

The writing has been on the wall for years. Sounds like a problem of their own creation.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#618

Post by InCityDreams »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

>* User any browser and browser engine and choose to make it default

...only works if the OS doesn't unchange it every. sodding. day.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#619

Post by ko27 »

runako wrote: post #516
Vespasian wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple: it's impossible because of the encryption Regulator: what are the others using? Apple: something very similar but slightly different Regulator: and it's impossible to develop an open standard thet allows p2p encryption to be maintained? Apple: Yes obviously in this specific field of technology that's not possible at all. (Not the) Regulator: Sounds legit

This facile response ignores that Apple Messages is a system, not just an encryption algorithm. Of particular concern is key management: who manages the keys that allow the messages to be decrypted? Currently, it's Apple. What this Act says is that Apple Messages must interop with any other messaging system. If you spin up a VM running an iMessage-compatible server on Hetzner, Apple Messages must interop with you and…

Some of the comments you posted on this thread are completely false, like EU forcing Apple to change bubble color or forcing them to handover encryption keys. Neither of that is even remotely true. If Apple doesn't want other companies to have encryption keys they can (and should) provide an E2E API. They can document their own protocol, or implement an existing open one, like Signal's.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#620

Post by foepys »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #394
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Use existing hardware and software features without competitive prejudice. E.g. NFC What this will mean for me as an iPhone user: instead of using Apple Pay which is seamlessly integrated in my phone, watch and desktop OS, I will instead have to use my bank's terrible HTML-based 'app' to perform contactless payments, making it 100 times less convenient. This probably will make me switch back to using my bank card.…

If that's such an important issue for you, why don't you just switch to a bank with an app with good UX? There are so many banks out there, one will surely either support Apple Pay or have a decent app.

Apple Pay will not just die, Android has no restrictions on NFC and Google Pay is still supported by banks.

What you do is fear mongering that's not based on reality. Android shows that it works and Apple just wants their cut, as always.

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