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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#421

Post by izacus »

NeveHanter wrote: post #409
blinkingled wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is already not a problem on Android. If you can install a 3rd party app store (and you already can install a bunch of these on Android) and don't use Google Play Services your app will still work. For e.g. Amazon Appstore ships lots of the same apps but without using Google Play Services.

Well, no, many apps require Google Play Services/Google Play Framework to work, I can use MicroG ( https://microg.org/ ) with the spoofing enabled but this is unofficial thing and not everything works with that.

And many apps don't work without Apple iOS being present on device and many apps don't work without Windows being present on device, etc.

Play Services are core OS API just like Apple services are.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#422

Post by MichaelCollins »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #411
tirpen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors.

Like tax brackets? Treating big things exactly the same as small things seems ideological, not rational.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#423

Post by foepys »

blinkingled wrote: post #395
NeveHanter wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the Google Play Services as a whole? Most of the Android apps don't work without these (so you can't for example use LineageOS without GApps), does the act in any way reference such things? What about contactless payment without "Google's approval" which require hiding the root, hiding the fact that the system is unsigned or has unlocked bootloader.

That is already not a problem on Android. If you can install a 3rd party app store (and you already can install a bunch of these on Android) and don't use Google Play Services your app will still work. For e.g. Amazon Appstore ships lots of the same apps but without using Google Play Services.

Google's push notification framework is baked into the kernel. There is no way to make a competing framework as efficient as Google's solution in Android, so next to no app supports something else.

Every app you see working without Google's tools is simply using good old long polling or periodically looks for new messages. Both are very inefficient and slow.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#424

Post by yulaow »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #411
tirpen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

Exactly, and this is why the rest of the world is wishing and waiting since years that US lawmakers start implementing serious anti-trust laws and entities which work in that direction.

I mean, after the facebook-whatsapp merge (and the whole aftermath) we mostly lost all hopes.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#425

Post by izacus »

bena wrote: post #233
Zealotux wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm this, I once installed a package on my Linux machine that wasn't approved by a multi-billion dollar company, my computer exploded.

Browser toolbars. It's just going to be browser toolbars all over again. Sure, you may not install them. You may be perfectly meticulous with what you install on your devices. But not everyone is.

A small cost to pay for a proper free market with competition. It's critical for success of our capitalism that free market competition exists.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#426

Post by glogla »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #411
tirpen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors.

This is completely normal for laws.

Your kitchen at home doesn't have to follow the same rules as restaurant kitchen, for example. You as a driver of your personal car don't have to go through the same process and registration as truck drivers do. Small stalls selling things have different rules than big stores. And so on.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#427

Post by fyzix »

nemothekid wrote: post #178
bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

Facebook isn't forcing Android users to install their apps from an alt store so that point is moot

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#428

Post by Beltalowda »

peytoncasper wrote: post #366
delecti wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "invisible hand of the free market" doesn't work when manufacturing a device requires such a huge infrastructure around it, and benefits so much from economy of scale. "Exploitative business practices must not be that bad or the free market would step in" is a painfully naive take.

You're totally right. How ever will a tiny company like Apple compete against Blackberry with their massive marketshare advantage and extensive supply chain...

Blackberry was never "massive" in the same way that either Android or Apple are today. Blackberry had about 85 million users at its peak and while that sounds like a lot, it was essentially a fancy phone for checking emails and such, and is nowhere near the pervasive penetration in all aspects of society that have happened since then. All sorts of daily activities are harder – or even outright impossible – without an Android or iPhone.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#430

Post by [deleted] »

bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

[deleted]
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