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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

401–410 of 1001 posts

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#401
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with this, I'm interested in seeing what the long term security consequences are. These are all the highest risk API and integration surfaces on mobile devices. Also I hope Microsoft get pulled into this as well because they're slowly turning Windows into a marketing device. Edit: as an iOS user I'm optimistic that this will lead to complete device network whitelist capabilities though so you can neuter…

> I'm interested in seeing what the long term security consequences are. Negligible; most large-format computing devices already allow you to do all of these things.

However mobile devices have a dual role (in many people's lives these days) as being the custodian of all their MFA setup. weakening mobile security (which this arguably may do) could have an impact there.

Also "large format computing devices" are moving more to the lockdown model, at least partially due to the security problems inherent in allowing end users to install/run whatever they want :)

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#402
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

I very much welcome this legislation (and I use an iPhone). How would you approach this otherwise? The EU probably can't break up Google or Apple (how would this even look like?) and the walled gardens are clearly a market failure, including apples fat margins. You mention details, but regulation can be well made and just continuing the status quo is also bad. All regulations open up questions but it's not the wild w…

I would allow the same approaches taken today. I don’t want any of these things, and would buy an android phone if I did.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#403
post #249
post #218

Oh please spare me this crap. This isn't true at all. I knew this was bs before switching to iphone but I was optimistic. Apple AirPlay is just pure trash, so I have to use chromecast. My Apple watch keeps bugging out and notifying me few minutes late and requires restart of both devices. The device keeps connecting to open networks while my remembered home network is available. The camera lens has issues with glare…

> Oh please spare me this crap Someone else's opinion isn't 'crap'. Like what you have proffered, is as much an opinion as the OP.

> Someone else's opinion isn't crap.

Correct, but what has that to do with anything? They did not give an opinion but claimed several points as fact. These claims were crap.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#404
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> User any browser and browser engine and choose to make it default Hello, Alphabet world domination. They finally get the chance to get rid of that pesky Safari. Next stop: obligatory sign-in for using a service.

If that’s really how it rolls out, doesn’t it also mean that Safari wasn’t viable on itself and nobody wanted to use it in the first place ? Apple is no underdog anymore, if their browser couldn‘t compete on its own merit I won’t be crying a river over it. Firefox, while mired with its own problems, is another story; but I don’t see Mozilla losing from this decision.

Why is Firefox another story?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#405

One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance. Europe could even subsidize it. But instead, it’s more engineering by bureaucrats. Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

> One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance.

The problem is that such a device doesn't really have a chance because it's not compatible with existing infrastructure such as WhatsApp, Instagram, your banking app, what-have-you. It could be the best device in the world, but there's always a catch-22 problem with software that's fundamentally closed and can't be implemented by a third party.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#406
post #74

Does anyone know if the definition of "gatekeeper" extends to infrastructure services like AWS or Cloudflare? > A small number of large undertakings providing core platform services have emerged with considerable economic power that could qualify them to be designated as gatekeepers pursuant to this Regulation. Typically, they feature an ability to connect many business users with many end users through their service…

I'm not sure how this would mean anything for a service provider like AWS. You can already install and run whatever version of your own services you want on bare EC2s, and if you don't want to use the xen hypervisor for some reason, you can buy bare metal instances and do whatever you want with them. It's already possible to run OpenStack on AWS if you really want to do that.

Many orgs buy AWS for the unified billing and control plane. That part is fused shut and precisely addressed by the text (not quoted above). I can't as a third party build a service that competes with AWS and give it the usability that is possible buying direct from AWS

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#407
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

I very much welcome this legislation (and I use an iPhone). How would you approach this otherwise? The EU probably can't break up Google or Apple (how would this even look like?) and the walled gardens are clearly a market failure, including apples fat margins. You mention details, but regulation can be well made and just continuing the status quo is also bad. All regulations open up questions but it's not the wild w…

“I oppose this legislation that will bring massive good because I can imagine a few edge cases that have almost certainly been addressed but weren’t explicitly stated in the summary I glanced at.”

This type of comment is everywhere on the Internet and completely predictable.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#408
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

>For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store?

Well that would depend, are you a "gatekeeper", as defined in the Regulation?

That is, do you have a significant impact on the EU's internal market (a turnover of €7.5bn or a €75bn market cap), provide a core platform service which is important for business users to reach end users (have have 45m monthly active end-users in the EU or 10k monthly active business users), enjoy an entrenched and durable position in your operations or foresee that you will enjoy such a position in the near future (i.e. you meet the above for three consecutive years)?

If you answered "no" to any part of that then you are not a gatekeeper, and these regulations do not apply to you.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the Google Play Services as a whole? Most of the Android apps don't work without these (so you can't for example use LineageOS without GApps), does the act in any way reference such things? What about contactless payment without "Google's approval" which require hiding the root, hiding the fact that the system is unsigned or has unlocked bootloader.

That is already not a problem on Android. If you can install a 3rd party app store (and you already can install a bunch of these on Android) and don't use Google Play Services your app will still work. For e.g. Amazon Appstore ships lots of the same apps but without using Google Play Services.

Well, no, many apps require Google Play Services/Google Play Framework to work, I can use MicroG (https://microg.org/) with the spoofing enabled but this is unofficial thing and not everything works with that.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#410
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree with you, but here's a hypothesis worth considering: What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more? Societies have long accepted that things like medical treatments have to be prescribed by an expert, and some societies have even decided that healthy people can be forced to have medical…

We're not building that society. We're living in that society. I don't understand how people didn't realize this over the last couple of years. We are not qualified to have opinions on a lot of things we do have opinions on.

Many years ago I had a roommate who was an actual Marxist (this was in Berkeley CA) and who had a kind of a job or volunteer position with a local radical politician trying to influence local politics. They would do things like go to city council meetings and march around the room singing songs. Dumb shit like that.

One day I'm reading in my room and the lights flicker and I hear a yalp from the living room. I go out to investigate and I can smell the magic smoke (not weed, electrical) and the roomie is standing there with a screwdriver and a spooked look on her face.

It transpires that she wanted to move a certain bookshelf to a certain spot and have it flush against the wall, but it was blocked by a little external electrical outlet. It was an old house, you see, (old for the West Coast that is) and when it was electrified they didn't both to run the wires through the walls. Instead they ran little conduits along the baseboards and mounted external socket blocks so we could plug in lamps, etc. One of these external electric sockets boxes was in the way of the bookshelf.

You can see where this is going?

She got a screwdriver and tried to remove the electric socket box without turning off the circuit. The flickering lights were when she shorted the circuit with the screwdriver and made the magic smoke come out.

Fortunately she wasn't hurt, just startled.

Now this person was in her fifties! How the hell to you get to be fifty years old and not know how electricity works!? And yet she felt confident that she knew how cities and countries should be run.

I think there are at least two points here:

1.) We have already made the world more complicated than the average person can understand. Computers are like pouring fuel on that fire, but it's been burning for a while now.

2.) People can be really stupid and ignorant and yet feel like they know what's going on and what to do about it.

I think the obvious though perhaps unpleasant conclusion is that we should look to radical simplification in all areas, and treat complexity as something that should be budgeted, treated as an expense and necessary evil.

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