U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#301

Post by throwaway742 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:07 AM UTC

throwaway988 wrote: post #251

kromem wrote: post #242

I wonder at how proving a legal path to ending life for anyone (with a lengthy waiting period and multiple psych sessions) would reduce the instances of impromptu suicide. My suspicion is that the availability of a legitimized path to the same result, but with a far less traumatizing method for both the individual and their loved ones, might allow for transitioning people into getting help when that's not the outcome…

With respect to the button in the nitrogen chamber, I doubt anyone experiences regret for pushing in their last few moments. That seems like more of a literary device. I think "relief" would be the common emotion in practice. For myself, I'm no longer suicidal, but I don't want to be reincarnated, I don't want to go to heaven (and obviously not hell), and I simply don't want to wake up anywhere at all after I die. An…

I have expressed this sentiment on here before. Immortality is my nightmare. I find it mildly amusing that some people seek it as a goal.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#302

Post by Meltiono » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:08 AM UTC

starkd wrote: post #254

kromem wrote: post #242

I wonder at how proving a legal path to ending life for anyone (with a lengthy waiting period and multiple psych sessions) would reduce the instances of impromptu suicide. My suspicion is that the availability of a legitimized path to the same result, but with a far less traumatizing method for both the individual and their loved ones, might allow for transitioning people into getting help when that's not the outcome…

Call me a puritan, but I'm pretty sure just giving people a way to readily kill themselves is not the way to address the problem. You do the exact opposite of that. Some things are absolutes. This is one of them.

'readily' we are not talking about the sucidie booth from futurama.

Sorry but please try to avoid creating a strong opinion if you haven't even thought about the issue in hand in more indempth than 'readily'.

Btw. for further thoughts: Imagine that getting sucidie support takes 3 years. It involves different doctors, mandatory therapy and than you have the approval to do so.

Wouldn't you think this would potentially even lead to more people NOT killing themselfs? Basically helping people to commit suicide as a form of preventing sucidie?

I would believe so.

No one just kills themselfs. The same reasoning btw. (i know it wasn't mentioned but out of personal expierience i just wanna mention it) its the same with abortion. No one just does an abortion.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#303

Post by throwaway742 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:09 AM UTC

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #280

Lammy wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> state authorized suicide IMO there's no way this would ever become any sort of common occurrence, because the state would never willingly give up its human capital on that scale. "Again, when a man in violation of the law harms another (otherwise than in retaliation) voluntarily, he acts unjustly, and a voluntary agent is one who knows both the person he is affecting by his action and the instrument he is using; an…

> the state would never willingly give up its human capital on that scale The same state that sends its youth off to die in wars? Or that executes them when it so chooses?

Obviously war can benefit the state so it becomes a simple cost benefit analysis. Execution does seem to be irrational when you could instead force them into a lifetime of involuntary servitude.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#304

Post by freeflight » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:13 AM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #267

yellowapple wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't demonstrate any such thing.

Do you have any counter evidence? SWAT isn't gonna roll because someone slit their wrists or chugged aspirin. Now go outside and start pointing firearms at people or taking hostages and you will probably be getting some SWAT attention.

> Now go outside and start pointing firearms at people or taking hostages and you will probably be getting some SWAT attention.

The article from The Week has a WaPo source that has more detailed data on SWAT deployments in Maryland [0];

"Since the law passed in 2009, the data have consistently shown that on average there are about 4.5 SWAT raids each day in Maryland."

"• Prince George’s County alone averaged well over one SWAT raid each day in 2012 (510 in total)."

"In 2012, nearly 90 percent of the SWAT raids in Maryland were to serve search warrants."

"• Half the SWAT deployments in 2012 were for “Part II” crimes, the nonviolent class of crimes. The vast majority of those raids were to serve search warrants on people suspected of drug offenses."

So not really a lot of "pointing firearms at people" but apparently a lot of war on drugs.

Also; Around 51 deployments in Maryland didn't serve search warrants, tho it doesn't detail it further what they instead did.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/02/17/...

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#305

Post by throwaway742 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:13 AM UTC

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #258

starkd wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me a puritan, but I'm pretty sure just giving people a way to readily kill themselves is not the way to address the problem. You do the exact opposite of that. Some things are absolutes. This is one of them.

I think it's remarkably reductionist to frame OP as "just giving people a way to readily kill themselves." They went to some lengths to stress how it wouldn't in fact be "readily" available, but a lengthy process with many avenues in which people could constructively offer an alternative to whatever the person's problem might be. I think it's a very similar approach to drugs in certain countries: you decriminalize th…

I have personally experienced in the past (not now I am not a danger to myself or others) an inability to accurately discuss my current state of mind with my doctor out of a fear I would be involuntarily deprived of my liberty. Most people don't want to be locked up, but it serves neither party when you have a fear of discussing your actual symptoms.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#306

Post by freeflight » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:14 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #129

freeflight wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you also calculate the economics of privatized firefighters like that? Or are you at some point willing to admit that not everything should be a private, purely for profit/shareholder value, venture?

I did not claim anything about what should or should not be subsidized by taxpayers. My comment was simply about the actual cost of providing ambulance services. The fact that the insurance company can negotiate the bill to $500 indicates what the real price is. The $12k number is just fantasy numbers that healthcare providers throw out to start the negotiation.

> The fact that the insurance company can negotiate the bill to $500 indicates what the real price is.

That really depends on your definition of "real price", particularly considering how in a lot of developed countries that'd still be considered a pretty outrageous price to pay for such a situation, particularly while even having insurance.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#307

Post by dna_polymerase » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:23 AM UTC

> follows a three-year joint effort by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to put crisis care more in reach for people in need. This initiative is part of President Biden’s comprehensive strategy to address our nation’s mental health crisis

Three years ago Trump was in office. Why does everything in U.S. politics has to be so stupid?

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#308

Post by eulenteufel » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:26 AM UTC

starkd wrote: post #255

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are forms of suffering that society is powerless to prevent or treat, no matter the priority we place on it or the resources we put behind it. Whether genetic or due to random chance, some people will have little hope of happiness or even temporary alleviation of suffering, and it’s wildly unjust for society to declare that our collective values supersede those of that person’s, and so therefor their suffering…

Then they can be helped in their suffering. Even those who are supposedly incurable can be helped in some way, if they allow themselves to be helped. Not to sound callous about anyone's suffering, but the meaning of life is not the avoidance of pain and suffering. We all suffer to various degrees. Our response as a society should not be to administer death as a treatment option.

Pain and suffering will be part of anybodies life. Often suffering can even have a positive effect longterm. But people who want to kill themselves often see pain/suffering to an amount so great that it only makes them more miserable over time. We as a society can try to help these people, but all in all we really don't (at least where I've been).

I am convinced that a society which doesn't want to commit the resources to help the people who need help must not forbid these people to choose to kill themselves if that is the only solution they can find by themselves. Administering death is not a treatment option society should choose, but the people themselves should be allowed to do so.

If people get good help a lot of them will choose to keep living.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#309

Post by Doyce » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:32 AM UTC

Meltiono wrote: post #299

starkd wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they can be helped in their suffering. Even those who are supposedly incurable can be helped in some way, if they allow themselves to be helped. Not to sound callous about anyone's suffering, but the meaning of life is not the avoidance of pain and suffering. We all suffer to various degrees. Our response as a society should not be to administer death as a treatment option.

There is no logic to your argument. There is no inherant reason to life. The biggest issue with this topic is, that it spits in your face if someone else doesn't think lifing is the only answer after becoming aware of yourself. But lets take a view which YOU might understand: Imagine yourself without arms and legs. Only way to move around is by asking someone else. Every means of eating or switching the tv channel is…

Which medics is that? I served in the US Army and while not a 68W I did run the 10 day medic course the Army offered and at least to the US branch, I can assure you no one is being told to try to envision surgical, prosthetic, and rehabilitation success rate ratio. Medics are masters of two things.....they can stop bleeding and keep air flowing while maintaining suppressive fire with their other hand and plan out what they want for dinner later and not miss a beat. But they don't have the same level of education as a Licensed Practical Nurse and are the last people anyone should want making that kind of call.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#310

Post by eulenteufel » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 8:32 AM UTC

TechBro8615 wrote: post #245

kromem wrote: post #242

I wonder at how proving a legal path to ending life for anyone (with a lengthy waiting period and multiple psych sessions) would reduce the instances of impromptu suicide. My suspicion is that the availability of a legitimized path to the same result, but with a far less traumatizing method for both the individual and their loved ones, might allow for transitioning people into getting help when that's not the outcome…

No, if someone has lost their motivation to live, that is the fault of the community around them, and it’s the responsibility of society to fix the failures that led to that loss of motivation. The path to fixing these failures is not to offer state-sponsored (or at least state-sanctioned, as your comment implies) lethal injection for anyone who asks for it. That’s sweeping the problems under the rug. I’m not religio…

> and it’s the responsibility of society to fix the failures that led to that loss of motivation.

I kind of agree with this statement, but there is not a lot of places where there is significant effort spend to help people who have big problems (especially in the US).