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U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#201

Post by yellowapple »

wolverine876 wrote: post #140
freeflight wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most SWAT teams do 8-16 callouts a year Which might not seem like a lot, but this scales up quickly considering there are more than 17,000 swat units in the US [0]. If we average the callouts to 12 per yer, per units, that's still 204.000 callouts per year on a nation-wide scale. A number that does not seem too unrealistic judging from past data I could find [1]. [0] https://www.theiacp.org/resources/document/natio…

But it demonstrates that SWAT teams are not being sent to people at risk of suicide.

It doesn't demonstrate any such thing.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#202

Post by missedthecue »

oops wrote: post #114
lotsofpulp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$500 for a specialized vehicle on demand 24/7 with somewhat trained workers who have to deal with undesirable work seems pretty good. Assuming that was under the deductible, so the ambulance provider did not get paid anything else, and $500 was the negotiated pricing for members of your insurance plan.

The $40 in Ontario sounds even better tho right? Just as the billed imaginary $12k figure that only exists to make “$500 seem pretty good” sounds absurd.

I wonder what the Ontarian government pays. Are Ontario ambulance companies that much more efficient? Surely there are heavy subsidies in play.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#203

Post by lotsofpulp »

yellowapple wrote: post #195
lotsofpulp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$500 for a specialized vehicle on demand 24/7 with somewhat trained workers who have to deal with undesirable work seems pretty good. Assuming that was under the deductible, so the ambulance provider did not get paid anything else, and $500 was the negotiated pricing for members of your insurance plan.

> Assuming that was under the deductible, so the ambulance provider did not get paid anything else Hm? The insurer would've paid the difference (minus some additional discounts depending on the size of the insurer and its bargaining power). That the patient paid $500 does not in the slightest bit indicate that the insurer negotiated the rate down to that pricepoint. Even at $500 (and let's assume that was an hour-lon…

I doubt the $12k that was billed was paid by insurance company. Typically, the provider bills a ludicrous amount, and then they apply a ridiculous “adjustment” for being a subscriber to the insurance plan, and then you pay per your deductible/coinsurance/out of pocket maximum situation.

I have no idea how much ambulances and personnel cost, but I do know that whatever the costs are, they have to be distributed amongst the emergency events.

An ambulance and redundant staffing is paid to be available 24/7, but there might only be 3 or 4 or 10 trips per day.

I assume there are also considerable liabilities and hence insurance costs.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#204

Post by yellowapple »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #128
TexanFeller wrote: post #80

I’ve heard people advise not to call such hotlines because their intervention is not limited to just talking to you. It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.

> It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was. I asked a friend who volunteers for one of these hotlines. He says it's actually rare and the guidelines are more about people are in imminent danger to themselves or others (e.g. threatening suicide by a method that would endanger other people in the process, or worse, implying threats of hurting other people…

> or worse, implying threats of hurting other people or inducing suicide by cop

"What's this? The caller intends to commit suicide by cop? Surely sending cops to kick down his door will put a stop to that!"

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#205

Post by throwaway988 »

adamredwoods wrote: post #79

Finally. This is excellent. Offloading mental health issues from the police is critical to reforming our country. For some of the doubters on this initiative, NPR had a good discussion: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/16/1111868486/calling-988-in-the...

It's not reasonable to expect police officers to excel at everything. Maybe this is better.

That said, I recently had the opportunity to watch (at length) a team of officers deal with someone experiencing a severe crisis. I can hardly believe the level of professionalism and kindness they exhibited. I'm anon, so I'll admit it--I cried and cried after watching that.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#206

Post by xwdv »

autoexec wrote: post #117
TexanFeller wrote: post #80

I’ve heard people advise not to call such hotlines because their intervention is not limited to just talking to you. It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.

I also wonder what the impacts of having "Placed calls to the suicide hotline" in your permanent record will be on people's lives if they do choose not to take it. With the state collecting that data, your phone company collecting that data, your cell phone OS collecting that data, random apps collecting that data, and who knows who is on the other end of that call and what they're doing with your data. Will you be t…

Absolutely those things can happen, and they should.

For example, imagine if an airplane pilot or anyone in a position of being responsible for a mass number of lives has previously called into suicide hotlines.

Would you feel secure knowing the pilot of your plane once exhibited suicidal tendencies? I doubt it.

Any bits of data we can collect to make accurate assessments should be collected.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#207

Post by reaperducer »

morelisp wrote: post #36
pigtailgirl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-- An ambulance in Ontario is $40 if you have OHIP - I know plenty of non-OHIP folks who have gotten hit with $200+ ambulance bills - myself included --

My last ambulance trip in the US was billed at $12000. With my (good!) insurance I still had to pay $500.

I find this hard to believe. I work in healthcare, and occasionally see billing numbers as part of my job. Even when we send an air ambulance helicopter to a remote part of the desert, it doesn't cost $12,000.

Related to the rest of this thread, a family member was hurt at work about six months ago and needed a 12-mile ambulance ride. The ambulance company billed the company's insurance $1,400. The company's insurance actually paid a little over $300.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#208

Post by parineum »

pessimizer wrote: post #121
softwaredoug wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policing in the US is shit in part because other social services are under developed that the police have to double for everything. Frankly it’s crisis too because doing social services and policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. Add to that it’s a job for Iraq and Afghanistan vets probably suffering from their share of PTSD, and you get a pretty volatile combo

> policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. It's not that it's a shit job, it's that it's a job that requires you to commit reprehensible acts, so good people can't join in good conscience. If our laws, law enforcement methods and justice system weren't horrifying, cops would be better, no matter how shit the pay or demanding the expectations.

>it's a job that requires you to commit reprehensible acts

It absolutely does not require that.

> If our laws, law enforcement methods...weren't horrifying

Give some examples and provide some practical solutions.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#209

Post by stemlord »

xwdv wrote: post #206
autoexec wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder what the impacts of having "Placed calls to the suicide hotline" in your permanent record will be on people's lives if they do choose not to take it. With the state collecting that data, your phone company collecting that data, your cell phone OS collecting that data, random apps collecting that data, and who knows who is on the other end of that call and what they're doing with your data. Will you be t…

Absolutely those things can happen, and they should. For example, imagine if an airplane pilot or anyone in a position of being responsible for a mass number of lives has previously called into suicide hotlines. Would you feel secure knowing the pilot of your plane once exhibited suicidal tendencies? I doubt it. Any bits of data we can collect to make accurate assessments should be collected.

I think the type of background check necessary for something so life-critical like piloting commercial airliners should be considered distinctly different from the kind that any other normal job should involve

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#210

Post by goldenkey »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #164
softwaredoug wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policing in the US is shit in part because other social services are under developed that the police have to double for everything. Frankly it’s crisis too because doing social services and policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. Add to that it’s a job for Iraq and Afghanistan vets probably suffering from their share of PTSD, and you get a pretty volatile combo

The reason social services are underdeveloped is because police spending has swollen to consume massive portions of municipal, state, and federal budgets. This is thanks to decades of conservative politicians beating the drums of "wasteful" welfare spending and "fighting crime by spending more on police." Forty percent of Uvalde's budget was going to the police - $4.3M for 15,000 residents, or $2900/person. That does…

Wow, that's insanity. Have you ever thought about making a simple single page app showing comparative stats? I'm curious how other major cities like LA and Chicago stack up.
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