Earlier quoted context omitted.
The president of the United States literally said "You're not going to get Covid if you've had these vaccinations" - https://youtu.be/VArXfQU--LA?t=21 It's likely the vaccines reduced the spread of the virus temporarily, but it certainly wasn't very long-lasting. The efficacy waned quickly, even against the original strains/Alpha/Delta - take a look at case rates in Israel (first heavily vaccinated country) through m…
Remember Delta wasn't even around until late summer. Biden's speech was barely an exaggeration at the time when we were dealing with the original strain. Was it 100% effective at preventing all infection entirely? No. It was 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms, hospitalization, and death, and was 95% effective in preventing symptoms entirely. 95% reduction in infection and 100% reduction in death is close en…
We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
141–150 of 355 posts
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because it basically doesn't work for children. It's nothing to do with the speed of the trial, the vaccine just doesn't work in children. Even the approved one that exists today barely does anything. There were a ton of attempts before that that simply straight out didn't work.
What does this have to do with anything? The CDC said we need to take the vaccine. That's all you need to know. If you need to take it then obviously kids need to take it too.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
And now it's more accurate - there's plenty of vaccines out there previously that weren't 100% effective, so there's no reason to have the absolute language out there. The measles vaccine is only 97% effective after 2 doses - so that wouldn't have met the old definition either. edit: sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition
>sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition Really? So the definition the CDC used for years to describe vaccines had to be changed, since by their own definition the COVID vaccine wasn't actually a vaccine. And the best part is they didn't even announce & explain the change, they just stealthily modified it on their website. And you don't understand why so many…
Which part of the new definition do you disagree with as being a valid definition for a modern vaccine? And what difference does it make functionally? The covid vaccines were a product that gave you protection against a disease. Everyone knows that's what a vaccine is. I don't see why it matters what the definition on the site was to begin with.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember Delta wasn't even around until late summer. Biden's speech was barely an exaggeration at the time when we were dealing with the original strain. Was it 100% effective at preventing all infection entirely? No. It was 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms, hospitalization, and death, and was 95% effective in preventing symptoms entirely. 95% reduction in infection and 100% reduction in death is close en…
Quoted post unavailable.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#145This is the wrong discussion - what's needed is a vaccine that actually lasts for more than 6 months before immunity fades. I remember reading very early in COVID how experts said finding a vaccine would be very difficult because we've never been able to generate long lasting immunity to corona viruses. And they were hoping COVID would be different. Turns out - it's not different.
I think your idea is what OP is discussing with “universal COVID vaccines” — generating broad immunity that new variants can’t escape so quickly.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#146Good vaccines are difficult to make, but there's no doubt that a well-tested and approved vaccine saves lives. We don't have polio or smallpox today, thanks to vaccines.
I made the decision not to get the COVID vaccine. I have had COVID twice, confirmed with positive testing. I self-quarantined both times. I was quite tired and slept a lot during both infections. I am definitely on the list of those with co-morbidities. I don't have "long COVID", but my partner definitely does. I don't discount COVID, it's a serious flu, and various flu infections kill a lot of people every year.
**
In the early 90's, in the run-up to the first Gulf war, military personnel were widely asked to volunteer for an experimental vaccine. We were told this was an anti-anthrax vaccine, necessary because it was believed (or so we were told) that Saddam Hussein had stockpiles of anthrax-based biological weaponry. Those who were deployed weren't given the option, but those who did not deploy were asked to volunteer.
I did not volunteer. Some weeks after the call for volunteers went out, my Navy section non-commissioned officer (LPO) told me that I was required to volunteer. I disagreed, saying that was an order not voluntary. I was then told that I was ordered to volunteer, and that I'd be court-martialed if I did not volunteer. Now this is shitty, but when you sign up for the military, you sign up for stuff like this whether you like it or not. I don't know if I could have successfully fought this, but it seemed like a bad idea, so I agreed that I would "volunteer". I was then ordered to sign a paper stating that I had "volunteered" for the shot of my own free will. I refused this initially, but I got called out again by my leadership and threatened with court-martial if I refused an order to sign the paper. I was a scared 19-year-old, and didn't know if I had legal grounds or not, so in the end, I agreed to sign.
I wish I had never signed that paper. I wish I'd had the courage to tell my leadership to take me to court-martial. After I got the shot, I got sick. Constantly. I got sick again and again, taking weeks to get better between each bout. Fever, chills, headache, it was like a flu that went on for months. It was so bad at one point that my chief petty officer sent me to bed for a week, even when Navy medical refused me any treatment beyond Ibuprofen. This condition affected me on-and-off for well over a year.
Many years later, I read about "Gulf War Syndrome." I read of government claims of exposure to chemical agents while deployed - except that I never deployed to Iraq, and neither did thousands of others with symptoms. I truly believe that Gulf War Syndrome was caused by a chemical agent our own government deployed, in the form of a vaccine that I "volunteered" for, and thus have no recourse against my own government.
When I see my own government telling me that I "have" to get another experimental vaccine, a vaccine that cannot prevent transmission or infection from COVID, a vaccine that no one can be held liable for problems, and that same government threatening me with loss of public access, threatening me with "vaccine passes", pushing companies to exclude me from the job market unless I comply, I have this to say:
GO F** YOURSELVES
I won't ever "volunteer" again.
EDIT: I would also like to state that other than this one blot on the record, I greatly enjoyed my time in the military. I got to visit places I'm unlikely to see ever again, was given enormous responsibility, and had a job I truly enjoyed (most of the time). I met great people, and felt good about my contributions.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are forced to in Australia. I was barred from taking exams this semester since I didn’t have the vaccine. Others lose their jobs. There is no freedom of choice there. It’s a gun wrapped in a blanket.
Sounds like you made a choice, a poor one. We are also "forced" to wear seatbelts in cars and not drink-drive. For some reason I don't hear those things described as "no freedom of choice" or the ludicrous "gun wrapped in a blanket". Drink-driving is the closer analogy of the two, as the harm extends to other people, as in vaccine refusal. Can you imagine hearing the drink-driving laws described as "a gun wrapped in…
This is specific to the current covid vaccines. It's a valid point for highly effective vaccines like the polio vaccine which should be mandatory.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
And now it's more accurate - there's plenty of vaccines out there previously that weren't 100% effective, so there's no reason to have the absolute language out there. The measles vaccine is only 97% effective after 2 doses - so that wouldn't have met the old definition either. edit: sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition
>sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition Really? So the definition the CDC used for years to describe vaccines had to be changed, since by their own definition the COVID vaccine wasn't actually a vaccine. And the best part is they didn't even announce & explain the change, they just stealthily modified it on their website. And you don't understand why so many…
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#149I'm not sure the public - at least in North America - has much of an appetite for any more Covid vaccines. In the US: - Only about 2% of kids under 5 have had a 1st dose since they were introduced nearly a month ago - Only 30% of the 5-11 year old population has had 2 doses - So much damage has been done to public trust - "You will not get Covid if you get the vaccine; the vaccine eliminates the spread of the disease…
I've not been able to find medical evidence that the vaccine has any benefits at all for under 5s. It's been theorised to reduce severe illness and death (and it's very plausible it might!) but afaict that's never actually been measured.
Vaccination is a public health program.
If vaccinating under fives reduces the risk to preschool carers and enables us to maintain higher preschool capacity then that's a public benefit that has nothing. to do with whether it affects the individual outcomes of five year olds who contract covid.
Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So much damage has been done to public trust Anti-vaxxers aren't new. What we have here is an unhealthy mix of exceptionalism, anti-intellectualism and contrarianism. There is a psychological comfort in believing you' can see through the [Big Lie/Conspiracy]. Prior to Covid it was autism and vaccine. When was the last time you heard about that? Before Covid. Why? Because we've moved on to another vaccine to be skep…
As I mentioned in another comment, the President of the United States literally said that if you take the vaccine, you won't get Covid, verbatim. To your broader point - I think skepticism about the efficacy of the Covid vaccine is a very different (and rapidly evolving) thing than traditional anti-vaxx rhetoric. If you don't think public trust has declined - why did fewer than 50% of people who got 2 doses go on to…