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We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

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Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#121

Post by yesenadam »

joeman1000 wrote: post #73
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought nobody was forced to take the vaccine?

We are forced to in Australia. I was barred from taking exams this semester since I didn’t have the vaccine. Others lose their jobs. There is no freedom of choice there. It’s a gun wrapped in a blanket.

Sounds like you made a choice, a poor one. We are also "forced" to wear seatbelts in cars and not drink-drive. For some reason I don't hear those things described as "no freedom of choice" or the ludicrous "gun wrapped in a blanket". Drink-driving is the closer analogy of the two, as the harm extends to other people, as in vaccine refusal. Can you imagine hearing the drink-driving laws described as "a gun wrapped in a blanket"?! It would be ludicrous because the death is on the other side of the equation - deaths are being prevented. How is vaccine refusal different?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#122

Post by jameshart »

ekianjo wrote: post #62
jameshart wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, with respect to vaccines, specifically, would you say has undermined trust? Was there some massive scandalous plague of side effects caused by a carelessly approved vaccine that I missed?

> What, with respect to vaccines, specifically, would you say has undermined trust? The constant lies about the so-called efficacy of the vaccines, and the fact that they are perfectly safe, when they aren't? And let's not forget the complete propaganda from the CDC/WHO as if they were the only ones allowed to talk about vaccines.

No, you see, I get that you are an example of a person who doesn't trust the vaccines.

But that doesn't explain why you don't trust them.

You're using the fact that you believed a lot of anti-vaccine arguments as support for why you... chose to believe a lot of anti-vaccine arguments.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#123

Post by puffoflogic »

ars wrote: post #101
divbzero wrote: post #72

> The urgency that prevailed in 2020 has evaporated. I know parents of young children who are extremely disappointed that it took less than a year to trial and approve the first COVID-19 vaccine for adults, and then a full year and a half to trial and approve the first COVID-19 vaccine for children under 5.

That's because it basically doesn't work for children. It's nothing to do with the speed of the trial, the vaccine just doesn't work in children. Even the approved one that exists today barely does anything. There were a ton of attempts before that that simply straight out didn't work.

What does this have to do with anything? The CDC said we need to take the vaccine. That's all you need to know. If you need to take it then obviously kids need to take it too.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#124

Post by rayiner »

etchalon wrote: post #89
nonethewiser wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fair to equate skepticism of the covid vaccine to being anti vax.

How is it not fair? It's the same logic.

It’s not the same logic. You’re comparing traditional vaccines deployed for decades before being mandatory to literally the first mRNA vaccine in wide use that was developed just a year ago during a pandemic.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#125

Post by saltminer »

lifeplusplus wrote: post #8
rtlfe wrote: post #4

> In the US, roughly as many vaccinated people in the US die from COVID every day as there are total deaths across the country in motor vehicle accidents. It's truly shocking that we're not doing more to reduce car dependency.

or to make working public transportation a norm across the country and interstate travel

These are not mutually exclusive, reducing car dependency requires massive investment in public transit.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#126

Post by sterlind »

phkahler wrote: post #15

We could just approve Corbevax in the US. It's a more traditional vaccine and includes more of the virus than spike proteins. It's also unpatented and cheap. The cynic in me says there is huge interest in having an annual Covid vaccine like the flu one. They'll just change spike proteins every year in a never ending game of cat and mouse. With mRNA that game is easy and profitable.

Incorrect; according to Wikipedia, Corbevax just includes the receptor binding domain of the spike protein. It doesn't include other parts of the virus - were you confused by the adjuvants?

Anyway, you might be interested in Novavax if you're looking for a nice, classic covid vaccine. It's not any more effective than the mRNA vaccines, but it's FDA-approved.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#127

Post by yesenadam »

rayiner wrote: post #108
infradig wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was 2021, nowadays no one here gives a crap whether you're vaxed or boosted or even wearing a mask or not.

Covid deaths are higher now in the US than this time a year ago and nobody gives a shit. Half the country demonized the other half of the country for reaching the same state of indifference 6-8 months earlier than they did.

> Half the country demonized the other half of the country

And also demonized Australia - "fascist"! "authoritarian"! - for being 6 months behind in COVID and still giving a shit when the USA already didn't. For us in Australia, early 2020 was 6 months of the USA looking like a disaster movie while almost noone had it here.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#128

Post by sovnade »

robhunter wrote: post #52
sovnade wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No official body has ever said "you will not get covid if you get the vaccine". Even the earliest trial results said "you will not be hospitalized or die if you get the vaccine", not that you won't get covid. And at the time, that was true because we were dealing with the original strain. Nothing else you said is untrue either. The vaccine drastically reduced the spread of the virus. I'm not sure what you're getting…

The president of the United States literally said "You're not going to get Covid if you've had these vaccinations" - https://youtu.be/VArXfQU--LA?t=21 It's likely the vaccines reduced the spread of the virus temporarily, but it certainly wasn't very long-lasting. The efficacy waned quickly, even against the original strains/Alpha/Delta - take a look at case rates in Israel (first heavily vaccinated country) through m…

Remember Delta wasn't even around until late summer. Biden's speech was barely an exaggeration at the time when we were dealing with the original strain. Was it 100% effective at preventing all infection entirely? No. It was 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms, hospitalization, and death, and was 95% effective in preventing symptoms entirely. 95% reduction in infection and 100% reduction in death is close enough to round up for a non-technical speech.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#129

Post by rayiner »

metadat wrote: post #35
robhunter wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boosters have been available for nearly a year; vaccines for 5-11's for ~6 months. I think the booster rate is a reasonable sign that trust in "the science" has been lost - why do you think such a large % of people who initially "followed the science" (and got 2 doses) chose not to "follow the science" and get a booster? (Again, keeping in mind boosters have been widely available since late 2021)

Quoted post unavailable.

> What I think doesn't matter. From my perspective, about 50% of the United States is on a totally different wavelength, they seem to casually take insane risks WRT covid, and inexplicably focus on hating minorities (which I just don't get, why hate people who haven't done anything to you, when you could just ignore them instead?).

Do you really believe that’s what drives people? You don’t think maybe it’s that these folks have interests that are in conflict with those of these minorities? Or they oppose cultural or political changes that come immigration of different groups with a different culture? Or they worry about what folks coming from troubled parts of the world are bringing with them?

Or maybe it has little to do with minorities themselves, but is downstream of their political opposition to a party that wants to discriminate in provision of government services based on skin color? https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2021/06/12/yet-an....

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#130

Post by jameshart »

peyton wrote: post #44
jameshart wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, with respect to vaccines, specifically, would you say has undermined trust? Was there some massive scandalous plague of side effects caused by a carelessly approved vaccine that I missed?

Lots of people I know parrot “safe and effective” whenever testing positive. Turning an FDA-regulated phrase into a joke doesn’t bode well for future trust in government scientists.

Lots of living, nonhospitalized people, who are catching a preventable disease because community vaccine uptake wasn't as high as it needed to be to really stamp out the disease...

... have somehow reached the conclusion that the vaccine which did them no harm whatsoever, and is responsible for their being likely to have a very mild case of the disease, was not safe or effective?

Why on earth have they reached that conclusion?

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