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What I think about network states

vitalik.ca

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Re: What I think about network states

#81

Post by henearkr »

nominusllc wrote: post #67
henearkr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am light-years away from what you say. I am as horrified as you of "boot stamping on face" so I don't know what you're talking about... have you misread my posts??

You put nationalism in a list of bad things, as if it too were a bad thing. I don't think you consider what you're saying before you post it.

Yes to "consider the well-being of one's own nation before the well-being of all of the other things on Earth" is bad in my opinion.

It is bad because you could end up exterminating everyone (or polluting everything) for the sake of a few lucky ones. Happened a couple of times already.

Anyway it's bound to fail, as on this planet we share the same atmosphere, oceans, and almost all living species have no borders (including viruses).

PS: you should tone down your prejudice that I didn't think a lot about what I'm writing, it's... wrong and hurtful.

Re: What I think about network states

#82

Post by lazzlazzlazz »

henearkr wrote: post #8

Yay even more groupism. Like nationalism, bigotry and racism weren't enough. I think we should move towards a more integrated Earth, not more partitioning.

"More integrated earth" sounds like there are no options, no alternatives, superficial diversity, no escape if you don't fit. I will resist that to the end.

Re: What I think about network states

#84

Post by kreetx »

pphysch wrote: post #76
kreetx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multinationals arent "run" for the good of their people and don't seem to have any central value which motivates their being. And crypto here is simply a tool to enforce whatever rules they have to run their org (in the same sense that no-one can take your btc, but a government can take your fiat if they wanted to).

> Multinationals arent "run" for the good of their people and don't seem to have any central value which motivates their being. There is nothing stopping a large corporation from doing these things, should the leadership find it in their interest.

Absolutely, but they didn't start out that way and unlikely that any owner is going to change course of their business model.

Re: What I think about network states

#85

Post by dragonwriter »

zajio1am wrote: post #83

Fun fact: There is already one such 'network state': Sovereign military order of Malta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Ma...

The SMOM isn't a network state (it doesn't have pockets of sole sovereign territory spread across the world granted by different states as a result of ground-up political pressure from its members), though it is a sovereign entity that is not a traditional state (specifically, lacking any sole sovereign territory, though it has some diplomatic extraterritorial enclaves and some co-soveriegn territory with Italy.)

Re: What I think about network states

#86

Post by Vespasian »

ibz wrote: post #56
Nextgrid wrote: post #38

"Crypto" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your blockchain says. For your crypto-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the blockchain with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party run a good old database.

Very much agree. The only cryptocurrency that does not require a trusted third party is Bitcoin - and that is because it uses energy as a link to the real world. All the PoS crap is just various trusted third parties, which the fiat system already has (governments, banks...) and works better and is well regulated and well understood. Zero added value.

I don't think this is what the GP is talking about.

Think of this scenario: Suppose I got an online token/contract/NFT on any Blockchain that says I own the property and house at 123 Main Street and further suppose this is as verified on the chain as it can be. No doubt about it.

Then when I show up to 123 Main Street there is already someone living there with a different claim (let's say a classic deed in some government real estate database).

Then the police and the courts get involved and at the end of it one party will be removed from the property, by force if necessary.

This is what the GP meant with trusted physical party. The entities who IRL decide and enforce which of the many competing "proofs" of ownership are actually legit.

Re: What I think about network states

#87

Post by ryukafalz »

joosters wrote: post #57
ryukafalz wrote: post #33

There’s a lot here that’s entirely unnecessary but I’ve wondered recently if a “network state”-like thing devoted to certain public services might be beneficial. In particular, a large enough group could likely negotiate better rates for health insurance than an individual in the same way a large employer does, and could provide a stronger social safety net (maybe even potentially a UBI?) in the same way some governm…

We used to call those 'co-operatives' and 'unions'.

Sort of, but both are pretty industry- and purpose-specific.

Also, aren’t dues typically either fixed amounts or a flat percentage? If you’re looking to emulate a government, I’d imagine you might also want progressive dues akin to progressive taxation.

Re: What I think about network states

#88

Post by shafyy »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #40
shafyy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no line. Most "geniuses" are fucking insane, they just happen to be right about one thing.

Is this really true? Maybe they're not 'geniuses' but the most capable people I've met have generally seemed quite sane? Often idiosyncratic, sure, but not wildly decoupled from reality. That matches what I've generally read about famous geniuses too.

I don't have any hard data on this, that's just my experience / opinion =)

Re: What I think about network states

#89

Post by paisawalla »

henearkr wrote: post #81
nominusllc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put nationalism in a list of bad things, as if it too were a bad thing. I don't think you consider what you're saying before you post it.

Yes to "consider the well-being of one's own nation before the well-being of all of the other things on Earth" is bad in my opinion. It is bad because you could end up exterminating everyone (or polluting everything) for the sake of a few lucky ones. Happened a couple of times already. Anyway it's bound to fail, as on this planet we share the same atmosphere, oceans, and almost all living species have no borders (inc…

The whole point of exit is that there are too many people, such as yourself apparently, who consider their underdeveloped and underinformed notions of society to be universally applicable -- under force of law if necessary.

Put bluntly, I don't want a world where you can tell others whom they should value more than others. That strikes me as an incredibly arrogant proposition and I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Re: What I think about network states

#90

Post by atlasunshrugged »

7373737373 wrote: post #69
Communitivity wrote: post #21

Balaji sounds bizarre. The strangeness of the idea that Bitcoin is conservative is eclipsed only by the idea everything is run by the CCP, Crypto, and the NYT. I read Vitalik's take as a soft rebuke while trying to give honest consideration to the concept of a Network State. However, for me 'Network State' only seems to be a new term for a Distributed Autonomous Organization (DAO) that provides services typically pro…

Another sci-fi book that portrays such a world is Freedom™ by Daniel Suarez: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom%E2%84%A2

Oh, big +1 on Freedom, excellent book (weird fun fact, in the book the author thanks Rick Klau who until very recently was California's Chief Technology Innovation Officer- so there are some people with wild ideas who are in government too) https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickklau/
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