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What I think about network states

vitalik.ca

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: What I think about network states

#62

Seems like another instance of a longer historic theme that has been picked up recently by the sea steading libertarian crowd, and now network states. Imo, the secular and by extension libertarian mentality is just another anti-ethos defined by what it opposes, and then they think if they just criticize harder with more words, this negative thing that defines them will somehow yeild. Rhetorically, what is the differe…

The problem with theistic societies is that they make absolutely no sense to an atheist. Surely you're not advocating for atheists to pretend to be theists to push their political views?

(also many secular people are not libertarians, and many libertarians are religious. I have no idea where you got that idea from.)

Re: What I think about network states

#63
post #10

Here's something some software engineers need to understand: Most things in society and the world are not technical problems. Just because you can invert a binary tree doesn't mean you understand how society works. It seems like some people, just because they are smart in one area, think they know everything. We see this with many VCs, Elon Musk, Vitalik etc. Reading this post, I don't even know where to begin. This…

good point

Re: What I think about network states

#64
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no line. Most "geniuses" are fucking insane, they just happen to be right about one thing.

Is this really true? Maybe they're not 'geniuses' but the most capable people I've met have generally seemed quite sane? Often idiosyncratic, sure, but not wildly decoupled from reality. That matches what I've generally read about famous geniuses too.

It's because genius and lunacy aren't mutually exclusive, and any intelligence sufficiently advanced to be labeled as such is separated from normal intelligence by a wide gulf of differences.

Re: What I think about network states

#65

"Crypto" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your blockchain says. For your crypto-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the blockchain with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party run a good old database.

"Paper" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your paper stack says. For your paper-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party rely on a good old stone tablet.

Re: What I think about network states

#66
post #60

"Crypto" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your blockchain says. For your crypto-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the blockchain with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party run a good old database.

What do you mean when you talk about "the real world", is there one such thing?

By real-world I mean off-chain assets where the source of truth is usually the state of the physical world (as opposed to the blockchain, like it is with cryptocoins).

Re: What I think about network states

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like nationalism, bigotry and racism weren't enough. Please no. I would like to exit the bureaucracy of mother hens pecking me to death as they enforce ever-narrowing boundaries of permissible thought -- that is, when they are not decking my neighborhood and workplace with messages demanding my homage to the current thing. You, apparently, would like to make that the universal condition. Some people read "a boot st…

I am light-years away from what you say. I am as horrified as you of "boot stamping on face" so I don't know what you're talking about... have you misread my posts??

You put nationalism in a list of bad things, as if it too were a bad thing. I don't think you consider what you're saying before you post it.

Re: What I think about network states

#68
post #65

"Crypto" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your blockchain says. For your crypto-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the blockchain with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party run a good old database.

"Paper" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your paper stack says. For your paper-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party rely on a good old stone tablet.

When writing this comment I originally wanted to make an analogy to law and the reason the law is (usually) followed isn’t because “law” is a magic word that gives the text magical powers but because if you don’t follow it, some goons with guns will eventually show up and convince you to follow it. In this case, the goons are that “trusted party” that’s meant to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world. We know it’s not perfect which is why we have various levels of redundancy and oversight, and while it’s still not 100% reliable it usually works quite well.

However I’m not sure what you mean to signify with your paper vs stone tablet comparison. Unlike blockchains, paper doesn’t claim to do anything magical compared to stone tablets - it’s still just a medium of storing written text.

Re: What I think about network states

#69

Balaji sounds bizarre. The strangeness of the idea that Bitcoin is conservative is eclipsed only by the idea everything is run by the CCP, Crypto, and the NYT. I read Vitalik's take as a soft rebuke while trying to give honest consideration to the concept of a Network State. However, for me 'Network State' only seems to be a new term for a Distributed Autonomous Organization (DAO) that provides services typically pro…

Another sci-fi book that portrays such a world is Freedom™ by Daniel Suarez: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom%E2%84%A2

Re: What I think about network states

#70

> Zelensky would of course win a fair one-on-one fight Why "of course"? Putin does martial arts as a hobby, while Zelensky is a comedic actor. (Zelensky looks tougher on screen, but that's literally his profession.)

Clearly the state media building Putin's image has been effective. If his martial arts ability is anything like the propaganda clips state media shows of his "daily" gym routine - where his form suggests it's the first time he's ever stepped in one - I don't think Zelenskyy has much to worry about.
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