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What I think about network states

vitalik.ca

31–40 of 144 posts

Re: What I think about network states

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

partitioning is the way how we make societies more integrated

No. World-widely adopted laws are the way to go (thus, with world-wide enforcement organ too). Any other method leads to workarounds and relocation of what was meant to be curbed.

you know that there are quite a few of us that don't like the imperial boot on our face, and will always oppose it?

Re: What I think about network states

#32

Balaji sounds bizarre. The strangeness of the idea that Bitcoin is conservative is eclipsed only by the idea everything is run by the CCP, Crypto, and the NYT. I read Vitalik's take as a soft rebuke while trying to give honest consideration to the concept of a Network State. However, for me 'Network State' only seems to be a new term for a Distributed Autonomous Organization (DAO) that provides services typically pro…

I agree, I was early in the 1729 community and there were a lot of interesting discussions but it got so muddled by Balaji with both crypto and hatred towards a biased media that I think the idea of network states sort of folded in on itself. Why on earth do you need an on-chain census to try to become a nation state verified by the U.N.? Really, I think this is a perfect example of what happens with a pretty genius mind that gets stuck in an area of expertise and tries to shoehorn everything into that frame of mind.

Just to add to your books, Diamond Age by Stephenson was also good although nation states weren't the main topic but Malka Older's Infomocracy series which talks a lot about microstates and a body like the UN that controls the world's information was a phenomenal read (and pretty quick).

Overall, the book was a major disappointment, same with the community and his investment in Praxis-- the book could have been Sovereign Individual 2.0 with the right editor and more thought into the structure but ended up being a long-form rambling essay with the same examples (keto community!) re-used again and again

Re: What I think about network states

#33
There’s a lot here that’s entirely unnecessary but I’ve wondered recently if a “network state”-like thing devoted to certain public services might be beneficial. In particular, a large enough group could likely negotiate better rates for health insurance than an individual in the same way a large employer does, and could provide a stronger social safety net (maybe even potentially a UBI?) in the same way some governments do. Doing so would require e.g. countering benefit tourism (you couldn’t have someone join when they’re laid off just for some benefits and leave immediately after they find a new one, you’d never be able to keep it funded that way), but I think that’s surmountable.

In other words, if we don’t believe the government we have right now is likely to provide many essential services, even if we ultimately believe it should, is it possible to organize privately for the same benefits? I think it might be.

Re: What I think about network states

#34
post #10

Here's something some software engineers need to understand: Most things in society and the world are not technical problems. Just because you can invert a binary tree doesn't mean you understand how society works. It seems like some people, just because they are smart in one area, think they know everything. We see this with many VCs, Elon Musk, Vitalik etc. Reading this post, I don't even know where to begin. This…

While I don't want to surmise as to the state of his friends and community (1729 which Balaji runs does have a good amount of people in it and I have made a good friend from there personally), I think that anyone interested in this topic who is an engineer should go and spend a year or two working in government just to see how it really works (and also put up or shut up at a certain point)

Re: What I think about network states

#35

There’s a lot here that’s entirely unnecessary but I’ve wondered recently if a “network state”-like thing devoted to certain public services might be beneficial. In particular, a large enough group could likely negotiate better rates for health insurance than an individual in the same way a large employer does, and could provide a stronger social safety net (maybe even potentially a UBI?) in the same way some governm…

[deleted]

Re: What I think about network states

#36
post #24
post #10

Here's something some software engineers need to understand: Most things in society and the world are not technical problems. Just because you can invert a binary tree doesn't mean you understand how society works. It seems like some people, just because they are smart in one area, think they know everything. We see this with many VCs, Elon Musk, Vitalik etc. Reading this post, I don't even know where to begin. This…

This is exactly how I feel about anarcho-capitalism (also known in the USA as libertarianism), and ideology that seems devised by a 10 year old with no life experience. How a grown-up person can take this nonsense seriously is beyond me. Bewildering.

I'm sure they would say the same thing about whatever nonsense you believe.

Re: What I think about network states

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. World-widely adopted laws are the way to go (thus, with world-wide enforcement organ too). Any other method leads to workarounds and relocation of what was meant to be curbed.

you know that there are quite a few of us that don't like the imperial boot on our face, and will always oppose it?

I am not talking about imperialism, but about an Earth-scale democracy.

I am as opposed as you to imperialism lol, if it was not clear enough from my posts.

By the way, I think that what can be put in the category of "traditions" is not touched by laws, so my proposal does not hurt cultural differences.

However it does ask to some traditions to go, because they are just objectively harmful.

Just to hit the nail a bit further: you see cultural variety INSIDE existing democratic states, for example regional customs and traditions, etc. So there is absolutely no hint of imperialism in building a world-wide democracy.

Re: What I think about network states

#38
"Crypto" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your blockchain says. For your crypto-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the blockchain with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party run a good old database.

Re: What I think about network states

#39
post #8

Yay even more groupism. Like nationalism, bigotry and racism weren't enough. I think we should move towards a more integrated Earth, not more partitioning.

> Like nationalism, bigotry and racism weren't enough. Please no. I would like to exit the bureaucracy of mother hens pecking me to death as they enforce ever-narrowing boundaries of permissible thought -- that is, when they are not decking my neighborhood and workplace with messages demanding my homage to the current thing. You, apparently, would like to make that the universal condition. Some people read "a boot st…

I am light-years away from what you say.

I am as horrified as you of "boot stamping on face" so I don't know what you're talking about... have you misread my posts??

Re: What I think about network states

#40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line between insane and genius is indeed seemingly small. Reminds me of when I talked with a quantum scientist. Most of what he said, sounded like ramblings from a coke head, but seemingly others around him understood what he said and continued the discussion, so I can only assume they were actually having a real conversation. If I'd met the guy under different circumstances, I'd definitely wouldn't have believed…

There's no line. Most "geniuses" are fucking insane, they just happen to be right about one thing.

Is this really true? Maybe they're not 'geniuses' but the most capable people I've met have generally seemed quite sane? Often idiosyncratic, sure, but not wildly decoupled from reality. That matches what I've generally read about famous geniuses too.
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