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Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

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Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#311

Post by jayd16 »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #299
jayd16 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't get a cut. It's a per seat model. Everyone seems to think Unity has some incentive to push IAP and they don't.

Huh? I'm pretty sure that unity act as an ad server, and take some money from it. As do iron source, for that matter. Honestly, this was always gonna happen post iOS tracking changes. Less data means worse ads and no measurement without substantial first party scale, which will tend to lead towards consolidation. Edit: in fact, if you look at their S1, you can see that they make money from subscriptions to their game…

What is your point? My point is that they're not incentivized to push games towards abusive MTX like the parent hypothesized.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#312

Post by xg15 »

yieldcrv wrote: post #192
OskarS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the full context does him any favors. The way he talks of gamedevs that are not engaging in predatory behaviour ("beautiful and pure, brilliant people") is incredibly condescending. Like, "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!". These are his customers he's talking about. And later talking about "comp…

I think it does do him favors. He isn't saying stuff them full of microtransactions and addictive behaviors. Idealism can just as easily be not paying attention to any form of making money, which you know full well that lots of developers do, especially passionate game developers. Have you ever tried to help someone make a game? Have you ever tried the finance side with them? When that CEO says some of them are fucki…

> He isn't saying stuff them full of microtransactions and addictive behaviors.

I mean, he is talking about the importance of tuning "compulsion loops", whatever those are supposed to be.

Sounds to me, he isn't advocating addictive behaviours because he's already taking that point for granted.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#313

Post by j_4 »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #198
OskarS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the full context does him any favors. The way he talks of gamedevs that are not engaging in predatory behaviour ("beautiful and pure, brilliant people") is incredibly condescending. Like, "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!". These are his customers he's talking about. And later talking about "comp…

That's just sticking your head in the sand and pretending that you can't see all of the indie devs that are wholeheartedly using microtransactions and injecting ads into their games. You can opine about how Unity should be a pure game engine for pure-hearted indie devs who make games out of passion, not filthy lucre. But that doesn't match reality, I'm afraid.

I wouldn't call these business-first, ethics-be-damned people "indies". Not because no true Scotsman, but because of how they self-identify, which from my experience tends to be temporarily embarassed CEO fatcats.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#314

Post by xg15 »

karaterobot wrote: post #97
jeffwask wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying every game needs to be an MTX riddled nightmare to be successful. As a gamer I reject that and have been with my wallet for a while. There are hundreds of dev teams producing great stuff below the AAA level that only ask me to buy the game once not every day.

> He's saying every game needs to be an MTX riddled nightmare to be successful. Come on, that's clearly not what he's saying in that quote. I don't like microtransactions either, but it makes your position weaker to get hyperbolic. He's saying you have to include monetisation when planning for your game, rather than pretending it doesn't exist. To me this seems so obviously true that it's almost a product design axio…

> He's saying you have to include monetisation when planning for your game, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

What's wrong about monetizing your game by, I don't know, selling copies of it?

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#315

Post by majkinetor »

rowanG077 wrote: post #294
majkinetor wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm... Is that really so? Sounds like pizzas where you can put things on it for additional price. Or when you buy house or car and pay extra for each little thing. I agree that in modern games its way more intusive then it needs to be.

No it's not comparable to that. Adding things to the pizza/car is a decision you make prior to using/consuming the good. I have no problem with games doing the equivalent. E.g. you purchase any DLC or costumes or cosmetics or whatever BEFORE starting the game. The evil part is making monetization part of the game. I would also find it evil for a car to suggest "Buy the vacation increased range package for 49.99$ and…

Yeah, you are right. Intrusion level is different and way more peedatory.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#316

Post by xg15 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #296
soneca wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”And personally, I greatly prefer this sort of frank talk to run-of-the-mill generic PR speak that usually comes from CEO interviews.” There is this desire for “authenticity” in the current zeitgeist. You see it everywhere, but mostly in how the crowds love people like Trump and Elon Musk. I think this is an understandable reaction from being lied a lot by polite PR-trained people. Politicians and businesspeople mo…

I think there is another angle to it beyond Truth vs lying. There is also content and clarity. A lot of generic PR speak is devoid of actual content, it doesn't mean anything. In this example, he is making a clear claim, like it or not. There is no ambiguity or double speak. I think a lot of people are willing to tolerate disagreement and even lying if it is done in simple language opposed to evasion. If you disagree…

I find that sort of ironic because Unity's very own press release, in which they announced this merger was stuffed with some of the most vapid and nonsensical PR bullshit phrases I have ever seen.

As in, they couldn't even get out a straight line about what ironSource's actual product is.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#317

Post by prvit »

noobermin wrote: post #293
MrYellowP wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ridiculous here is what it reminds you of, which makes you look worse than him. He's just open and honest about his thoughts and feelings about some people, but you , on the other hand, are definitely, at least , weird.

The analogy is people who blame other's reactions to them on the people themselves instead seriously contending with the claim and at least looking inward. Anyway, that was a bit off my point which I admit. The main point I am making is "irreverent" is more descriptive than "politically incorrect." Politically incorrect would be something not culturally sensitive or offensive to people with certain politics. He didn'…

This the worst analogy.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#318

Post by Spivak »

lovich wrote: post #205
selfhoster11 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The confusion is over what is meant by 'monetisation' here. Is is "making sure the game is at all commercially viable so I can afford to keep myself alive and well fed", or "making sure that every drop of money is juiced from the customer". Without a clear statement that he meant the latter, I decided to give him some benefit of doubt unless I have additional context (I never heard of the guy before).

I think using the term “compulsion loop” when taking about monetization is a pretty clear sign that he means the latter. Making a game that can pay for itself doesn’t really need to trick people into it. Look at stardew valley for instance, or factorio, or minecraft

But Minecraft has a really solid compulsion loop, it’s what makes it so easy to start playing and then realize it’s nightfall. You never have to wait for anything because there’s always something else to do, you get mild gentle pressure from the environment to do things like hunger, night, mobs that inject variety. Every step of building something is set up as a reward, and there’s tiers of progress that reward basically every action. Mining and drops is literally lootboxes.

You picked basically the most addictive game in existence that uses every trick in the book as your shining example. Minecraft just hides it well.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#319

Post by 411111111111111 »

jayd16 wrote: post #311
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I'm pretty sure that unity act as an ad server, and take some money from it. As do iron source, for that matter. Honestly, this was always gonna happen post iOS tracking changes. Less data means worse ads and no measurement without substantial first party scale, which will tend to lead towards consolidation. Edit: in fact, if you look at their S1, you can see that they make money from subscriptions to their game…

What is your point? My point is that they're not incentivized to push games towards abusive MTX like the parent hypothesized.

And you based that point on unity's licence being per seat, implying that they don't have a profit incentive to push for IAP/ads.

Their point was that this implication isn't correct, because unity does indeed have a profit incentive for ads and IAP, as they're providing a platform for such. It's one of the features unity mentions on the pricing page.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#320

Post by jeffwask »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #271
jeffwask wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case there is further confusion here he is talking about how cool it would be if you could charge per reload in shooter. https://youtu.be/ZR6-u8OIJTE "You are really not that price sensitive at that time"

That's just effing evil.

There are some real dark vids from GDC and the like talking about the psychology behind manipulating people into MTX and real money economies in games.
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